5 Greatest Captains Ever

[LongHopCassidy]

Oh. I see!

Isn't it the English selectors' fault also? Brearley himself acknowledged his batting wasn't international standard.

 

[Autobahn]

Well Grieg first selected him during the West Indies tour of England in order to blunt the pace attack and i think he was made vice-captain at a point and then when Grieg's underhand doings for WSC was discovered i guess with Brearley being next in line, it was the natural progression to apoint brearley.

And of course in those days teams where most willing to carry people in the batting order if they where particularly good in another area e.g. Bob Taylor.

 

[Swervy]

I know, that's why I don't like this song.

just to put this into some sort of context...you do realise that the band (Wild Cherry) who did that song were actually white,and its a song about acceptance????? I guess you would have a major problem about 'Dont Call Me ******, Whitey' as well!!!!

Take lyrics out of context, and you are asking for trouble..pretty much in the same way you take an isolated sentence from a cricketer and blow it out of all proportion

 

[archie mac]

just to put this into some sort of context...you do realise that the band (Wild Cherry) who did that song were actually white,and its a song about acceptance????? I guess you would have a major problem about 'Dont Call Me ******, Whitey' as well!!!!

Take lyrics out of context, and you are asking for trouble..pretty much in the same way you take an isolated sentence from a cricketer and blow it out of all proportion

I love that song, never thought it racist as a kid or now. More than happy for my kids to listen to it

 

[Ikki]

I would immagine opposite really - any comments referring 'Australins = convicts' even in an oblique fashion today is seen as inflamatory - and a 100 years ago, dont you think it would've been seen as even more inflammatory, given the 'not so long ago' use of Australia as a prison colony only ( 100 years ago - it would've been a handful of decades ago factor) ?

You imagine too much. It isn't offensive to any Aussies. It's a vessle for a lot of jokes though.

If you want to claim that you are one of the very very few white saffies who grew up under apartheid and wasnt racist, you have to establish that. Not the 'gentleman until proven otherwise'. Special scenarios exist and this one is such.

Why is it in your arguments the universal burden of proof is switched from the accuser to to the accusee?

Der Aamad Durust Aamad

Arabic saying meaning . Came (learnt) late but came right

Welcome to the club.

I think I'l join too.

 

[howardj]

I always rated Mark Taylor very highly. Best Australian captain I've seen, by some distance.

 

[Richard]

Can you rephrase that properly, so I can rebut you with my usual venom?!

Nope, too late now.
Don't know where the "got" came from.

 

[Richard]

Oh. I see!

Isn't it the English selectors' fault also? Brearley himself acknowledged his batting wasn't international standard.

It's the fault of John Edrich for being so good for so long.
Brearley probably wouldn't acknowledged his batting wasn't of international standard had he been picked younger.

 

[Richard]

just to put this into some sort of context...you do realise that the band (Wild Cherry) who did that song were actually white,and its a song about acceptance????? I guess you would have a major problem about 'Dont Call Me ******, Whitey' as well!!!!

Take lyrics out of context, and you are asking for trouble..pretty much in the same way you take an isolated sentence from a cricketer and blow it out of all proportion

I've no clue about the context, but yes, I completely realise they're white.
I find anything referring to skin-colour wholly unneccessary.

 

[marc71178]

I've no clue about the context, but yes, I completely realise they're white.
I find anything referring to skin-colour wholly unneccessary.

So much so that you read racism into completely innocent comments...

 

[Goughy]

So much so that you read racism into completely innocent comments...

Nicely bringing us back full circle to my thoughts on the issue regarding Greig

 

[Swervy]

I've no clue about the context, but yes, I completely realise they're white.
I find anything referring to skin-colour wholly unneccessary.

Really...ANYTHING refering to skin colour is wholly unneccessary?????

http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html

 

[wpdavid]

Nicely bringing us back full circle to my thoughts on the issue regarding Greig

Surely it's stretching credulity to describe Greig's comments as "totally innocent". I appreciate that no-one's ever a racist nowadays, but the term "grovel" is incredibly insulting. Can you find a single other occasion where the term was used when discussing opponents? For me, the extraordinary thing is how anyone should be surprised that the 1976 WI side took umbrage. Judging by some comments on this thread, Lloyd & co were the ones in the wrong for being on the receiving end of Greig's comments

 

[C_C]

Why is it in your arguments the universal burden of proof is switched from the accuser to to the accusee?

If a former Nazi soldier makes a joke with a Jewish guy about 'gassing' Jews, the onus is on HIM to prove himself to be not an anti-semite.
Similar logic applies here.

 

[C_C]

So much so that you read racism into completely innocent comments...

Typical colonial mentality.
Cant say that i am surprised.

 

[Goughy]

If a former Nazi soldier makes a joke with a Jewish guy about 'gassing' Jews, the onus is on HIM to prove himself to be not an anti-semite.
Similar logic applies here.

How many times will you try to make the same point? It was never relevent the 1st time let alone the 5th or 6th

 

[Goughy]

Typical colonial mentality.
Cant say that i am surprised.

Thats more racist than Greig ever mentioned. Bring it in please. In fact he was talking about a white reference, nothing to do with colonialism in the slightest.

 

[Richard]

Really...ANYTHING refering to skin colour is wholly unneccessary?????

http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html

Err - clearly I meant when not in response to something else...
That song clearly was no response to anything else, rather totally random.
I should've guessed you'd pick an argument out of nothing.

 

[Dasa]

Surely it's stretching credulity to describe Greig's comments as "totally innocent". I appreciate that no-one's ever a racist nowadays, but the term "grovel" is incredibly insulting. Can you find a single other occasion where the term was used when discussing opponents? For me, the extraordinary thing is how anyone should be surprised that the 1976 WI side took umbrage. Judging by some comments on this thread, Lloyd & co were the ones in the wrong for being on the receiving end of Greig's comments

It seems to me that some people are very conservative when regarding cricket...and can't possibly accept that the comment could somehow be offensive. It's easier to blame the victim.

 

[C_C]

Thats more racist than Greig ever mentioned. Bring it in please. In fact he was talking about a white reference, nothing to do with colonialism in the slightest.

No the typical colonial mentality is where you assume that the world runs in the 'English' way. Grovelling may not be a very bad word in the UK- but it is a very offensive term in places like the caribbean and i am aware that several caribbean people take it as highly offensive and an oblique swideswap about the bygone days when their ancestors were actually made to grovel.
Last time i checked, saying that the queen is a randy old hag isnt considered an offence in latin america- but it is highly offensive in the house of lords.
To impose your own definition and refusal to show any cultural sensetivity is precisely the kind of colonialist mentality that irks so many people.
Greig was slated for his comments and very much rightly so.
A white guy, who's the product of a despicable mentality prevalent within his elitist society, saying " i hope to make them grovel" to a bunch of folks who consider any reference to slavery or subservient behaviour as highly derogatory is just as much 'on' as a former Nazi solder joking about the jewish holocaust.
They can try to hide behind the 'you are assuming things about me blahblahblah' but if you make an insensetive comment towards a group of people, while at the same time, you have to PROVE your magnanimity ( rather than assuming it - it is absurdly ridiculous to assume 'he is a eglatarian hippie ' from a product of an apartheid era man. He has to establish is goodwill as far as i am concerned) you deserve to get slated. Period.