2nd greatest living cricketer

[trundler]

@ataraxia needs to appropriately respond to the contentious post above

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Murali is the GOAT spinner but let's not pretend how that 21 average came to be. The others are samplesizelol. Ambrose retired in 2001 ffs.

Exactly.
McGrath was the only Elite Pacer between Steyn and 90s ATG pacers.

There was no real competition, apart from
Akthar 33 tests 144 wickets at 22.

 

[trundler]

.. which makes the fact that he made elite batsmen his bitch much more impressive. Stood out far more than any other pacer in any other era. GOAT.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

What did i just read

Quality bowlers had no issue averaging less than 25 in 00s.

 

[kyear2]

Barnes was good against Australia but feasted heavily on some of the worst sides to ever take a cricket field. Great bowler but I'll still have the bloke who came out on top against just about every elite batsman he came up against. And he did it in the roadiest era ever. To me he's significantly better than anyone not named Malcolm Marshall.

Marshall
McGrath
-
Steyn / Hadlee
Ambrose
-
-
The other ATGs
Lillee, Donald, Trueman, Akram, Imran, Garner, Holding, Davidson, Lindwall, Younis

Just my opinion of course

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

.. which makes the fact that he made elite batsmen his bitch much more impressive. Stood out far more than any other pacer in any other era. GOAT.

World's best batsman was in his team.
Sachin and Lara.. more of 90s stars.
Dravid always struggled against great pacers.

 

[h_hurricane]

Ambrose's sample size in 2000s is like Procter's whole career.

 

[subshakerz]

World's best batsman was in his team.
Sachin and Lara.. more of 90s stars.
Dravid always struggled against great pacers.

Lara and Sachin still had hot streaks in the 2000s. Dravid did well against Donald and Ambrose when he played them.

 

[subshakerz]

Marshall
McGrath
-
Steyn / Hadlee
Ambrose
-
-
The other ATGs
Lillee, Donald, Trueman, Akram, Imran, Garner, Holding, Davidson, Lindwall, Younis

Just my opinion of course

Putting Steyn so high is odd to me. I loved watching him bowl but never would place him near to McGrath or Marshall. Especially since stats wise he wasnt that superior to the others. Some posters were so skeptical about Imran over his away recorrd yet Steyn has the similar seeming issues.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Steyn also got occasionally slapped around, in his prime, like noone else in the ATG sweepstakes. Probable nemeses being Sehwag, Sangakkara/Jayawardene in that monster partnership, KP most definitely...chalk it down to his MO or something else but he was dominated in exceptional situations in a way peak Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Wx2, etc never were to the best of my knowledge. You have to take into consideration that potential for profligacy while including him in any ATG XI.

 

[subshakerz]

Steyn also got occasionally slapped around, in his prime, like noone else in the ATG sweepstakes. Probable nemeses being Sehwag, Sangakkara/Jayawardene in that monster partnership, KP most definitely...chalk it down to his MO or something else but he was dominated in exceptional situations in a way peak Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Wx2, etc never were to the best of my knowledge. You have to take into consideration that potential for profligacy while including him in any ATG XI.

Can also add Michael Clarke and David Warner as those who tore Steyn to shreds on occasion.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Ambrose's sample size in 2000s is like Procter's whole career.

Point is, Quality bowlers did well in 00s.

 

[nightprowler10]

Bit of digression, but Shoaib Akhtar gets pretty underrated around these parts. 122 wickets @ 22 is amazing considering his injury troubles through those years and some of the pitches he bowled on.

 

[sunilz]

Steyn also got occasionally slapped around, in his prime, like noone else in the ATG sweepstakes. Probable nemeses being Sehwag, Sangakkara/Jayawardene in that monster partnership, KP most definitely...chalk it down to his MO or something else but he was dominated in exceptional situations in a way peak Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Wx2, etc never were to the best of my knowledge. You have to take into consideration that potential for profligacy while including him in any ATG XI.

But that was compensated by fact that Steyn had 2 match winning spells in IND in 5 tests against ATG bat in those conditions atleast which McGrath could never match. Gillespie was the most important bowler in 2004 test victory in IND of Aus.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Steyn also got occasionally slapped around, in his prime, like noone else in the ATG sweepstakes. Probable nemeses being Sehwag, Sangakkara/Jayawardene in that monster partnership, KP most definitely...chalk it down to his MO or something else but he was dominated in exceptional situations in a way peak Marshall, McGrath, Ambrose, Wx2, etc never were to the best of my knowledge. You have to take into consideration that potential for profligacy while including him in any ATG XI.

Flattest pitches though in general in a very run scoring heavy era.

Not suggesting Steyn would have averaged lower in the 90s or late 10s (maybe by a bit) but his ER would definitely have been better.

 

[subshakerz]

Bit of digression, but Shoaib Akhtar gets pretty underrated around these parts. 122 wickets @ 22 is amazing considering his injury troubles through those years and some of the pitches he bowled on.

I have learned to appreciate Shoaib more now. His career had two phases. The first 16 tests with 46 wickets when he was a third seamer to Wasim and Waqar. And then the last 30 tests from 2002 to 2007 when he was a opening bowler and took 132 wicket at 22, including many tests he couldnt complete because of injuries. That include 20 wickets in 5 tests at a low average with three fifers against an atg Australian lineup, and winning matches home on dead pitches against SA, England, NZ and others and away in SA and NZ.

I feel if Shoaib was even relatively more fit and had decent bowling support, he would have ended up with 300 wickets and been recognized as an ATG.

 

[subshakerz]

But that was compensated by fact that Steyn had 2 match winning spells in IND in 5 tests against ATG bat in those conditions atleast which McGrath could never match. Gillespie was the most important bowler in 2004 test victory in IND of Aus.

McGrath did very well in India, and had spells in 2001 and 2004 which set up victories for Australia. But between those spells he never went absent like Steyn and allowed for more control.

 

[subshakerz]

Flattest pitches though in general in a very run scoring heavy era.

Not suggesting Steyn would have averaged lower in the 90s or late 10s (maybe by a bit) but his ER would definitely have been better.

Maybe, but Steyns method of attack was similar to Waqar who also had a great strikerate and bad ER in the 90s. He didnt focus on control and didnt mind going for runs as long as the batsman was swinging the bat outside off giving him a chance to get a nick.

 

[ataraxia]

@ataraxia needs to appropriately respond to the contentious post above

Which one? There are quite a few and I cbf responding to all of them.

My AT XI 8 to 11:

Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne/O'Reilly/Grimmett/Murali

 

[trundler]

Which one? There are quite a few and I cbf responding to all of them.

My AT XI 8 to 11:

Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne/O'Reilly/Grimmett/Murali

You were supposed to say "no" to this

2000-09

Murali averaged 21
Warne, Donald and Pollock 25
Steyn 24
Akthar and Bond 22
Walsh 20
Ambrose 18

Even post prime Waquar managed 28.

Averaging 21 is great, nothing out of the world though. Especially when you are playing for the super dominant team.