2020/21 New Zealand Domestic Season

[CharlesLara]

is he once in a generation though? sodhi was marketed as such and well...

This, and from what I've seen Adi is far ahead of Ish at the same stage. Also, Adi's support network or Tarun, Barrington Rowland and guys like Ish, Jeet etc has helped his development immensely. I was in the crop between Ish and Tarun, and I can tell ya one thing, the resources around leg spin is far superior in this country than it was 10 years ago, not that thats saying a great deal, as we still have a long way to go culturally and tactically in handling leg spinners.

My biggest fear is the complete lack of nuance by everyone else surrounding leggies, IE everytime Ish bowled a wrongun the whole commentary box would think the second coming of Abdul Qadir was amongst us. Let them learn and grow, not just expect fireworks everytime ball is in hand. Also, NZ having a somewhat reliable batting order of to put runs on the board also helps the spinner.

As for Auckland, their selection policy has been certified trash IMO for years, its why most of the Auckland best players are not playing for the Aces, even youngsters. Jose Mourinho styles, prefer experienced players ready made players over anything else.

 

[Kippax]

Well it's just the old-fashioned South African notions of hierarchy and of teenagers really needing to earn their stripes, isn't it.

Auckland's only players who probably would buy into those South African notions of how to put some starch into the juniors (Guptill, KJ and Ferguson) are turning out for the Aces, and we do know KJ really rates Malan quite highly.

 

[nzfan]

Watched the highlights of this, coasted to 50 off short rubbish from Nuttall for the most part, but runs are runs.

Ravindras hundred looked very classy, left handers >>>.

What I've noticed is Ravindra hits the best bowlers and their best balls for fours. His balance is really good. Picks up the length real quick. That's probably what excites NZC.

The boundaries off Fisher, they weren't bad balls. Fischer looked disappointed but he shouldn't be. Those balls to other batters are good ones. I guess the left handers make their own width.

 

[CharlesLara]

What I've noticed is Ravindra hits the best bowlers and their best balls for fours. His balance is really good. Picks up the length real quick. That's probably what excites NZC.

The boundaries off Fisher, they weren't bad balls. Fischer looked disappointed but he shouldn't be. Those balls to other batters are good ones. I guess the left handers make their own width.

He played a couple of good length balls off the backfoot through point for 4 which were not bad balls AT ALL.

Well it's just the old-fashioned South African notions of hierarchy and of teenagers really needing to earn their stripes, isn't it.

Auckland's only players who probably would buy into those South African notions of how to put some starch into the juniors (Guptill, KJ and Ferguson) are turning out for the Aces, and we do know KJ really rates Malan quite highly.

Precisely this, you know the drill Kippax, since the Strang days.

 

[Immenso]

I'm going to defend Auckland selection. They have by far the most depth and strongest club competition. To break in young you need to be a generational talent. And generally these guys do get that chance. Phillip's, Parore, Morrison, etc.

Or a gap in the 11. Quinn, Cachopa x 2 etc.

If you want to fast forward your career, then move. Players do, and have done ever since I 90s.

This is the best outcome for NZ cricket as a whole.

Imagine the alternative. Auckland full of young un-earned charity picks. And ND, Otago, CD full of old mediocrity not challenged and displaced by hungry ex-Auckland youth.

 

[Flem274*]

the two districts sides produce more good players than auckland do, but auckland are definitely exporters

 

[Immenso]

This post has made me realise that Auckland haven't produce a generational talent since Martin Crowe. The 3 I include are stretches.

No Kane's ,Flems, Taylors , Cairns, Ryder , Baz etc from there, that you know should play from 18 or 19.

 

[Flem274*]

jamieson?

ferguson perhaps?

 

[Immenso]

the two districts sides produce more good players than auckland do, but auckland are definitely exporters

ND generally get a guy going over the border to Counties occasionally. Like Sodhi, Blair Pocock. The quick way to FC debut at 20.

Hawkes Bay and Auckland have a pattern. Crowe, Greatbatch, Raval, Nethula, Ajaz.

Otago. Well, its obvious and symbiotic since Walmsley, M Horne, Richardson showed the benefit.

 

[Immenso]

jamieson?

ferguson perhaps?

Well, no, not IMO.

Both more examples of fantastic individual learners supported by good coaches. Catching up late. Neither of them were obvious at 18, 19. Despite Howsie liking Jamieson early.

Lockie was volunteering for pseudo-reality tv help form Riggor and Doull as a 23 year old club player no name.

Generational talent may be a clumsy term. I'm talking obvious future star for whom space in 11 is made immediately.

So, James Franklin would be a generational talent at 18, Jamieson and Ferg not. Despite the latter 2 being better long term.

 

[nzfan]

Ravindra is the 8th preferred Michael Bracewell/firebirds bowler that is if he does bowl at all I'd be keen to know how many overs Ravindra has bowled for firebirds this season.

The pitch still seems to be doing fair bit for the seamers.

 

[nzfan]

Rutherford tons up. His 15th first class ton. He was consistently playing for NZ A couple of years ago and he was doing all right. Didn't play any NZ A game this year.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Hat-trick for Rae for Otago today, all three taken by the same short-leg fielder:

Plunket Shield: Otago's Michael Rae, Dale Phillips combine for rare bowler-fielder hat-trick
Otago seamer writes himself into record books with a rare type of hat-trick, where the same fielder took all three catches.

www.stuff.co.nz

Reminds me of a game I played at Bankstown Oval once where our point fielder nabbed a hat trick of run outs that were almost identical. I should ask CricInfo at some point whether this feat has ever been achieved at first class level as the raw likelihood of the ball going to the same fielder and having a chance to effect a run out three times in a row must be much, much lower than a standard hat trick.

EDIT: Love the way Rae sports the old headband. Classic stuff.

 

[nzfan]

That's a crazy occurrence, the catches all by the same bloke and he was at short leg looking at the highlights. Chances of that happening again, never.

 

[jcas0167]

This post has made me realise that Auckland haven't produce a generational talent since Martin Crowe. The 3 I include are stretches.

No Kane's ,Flems, Taylors , Cairns, Ryder , Baz etc from there, that you know should play from 18 or 19.

I would say Glenn Phillips might be, he was their outstanding A tournament player when he was 18 and was top run scorer in the Super Smash when he was 19 and made the Black Caps not long after.

Also, I'd nominate Lou Vincent who was in the Auckland team when he was 18. Guptill made his first class at 19 scored 99.

 

[straw man]

Have honestly never seen anything like that Rae hattrick (plus the similar Lennox dimissal). Caught at a not-very-short short leg, all from balls that were just short of a length rather than bouncers (no Wagnering here) and nipped in to hit the inside of the bat to go to the same fielder. Bizarre. It's like a new mode of dismissal was invented and perfected in the space of three balls.

Still, well done that man.

 

[CharlesLara]

I'm going to defend Auckland selection. They have by far the most depth and strongest club competition. To break in young you need to be a generational talent. And generally these guys do get that chance. Phillip's, Parore, Morrison, etc.

Or a gap in the 11. Quinn, Cachopa x 2 etc.

If you want to fast forward your career, then move. Players do, and have done ever since I 90s.

This is the best outcome for NZ cricket as a whole.

Imagine the alternative. Auckland full of young un-earned charity picks. And ND, Otago, CD full of old mediocrity not challenged and displaced by hungry ex-Auckland youth.

I would say thats kinda the issue though, even do I do feel what you are saying. The idea that you have to be a "generational talent" is a bit much IMO, and guys like Lochie have been in the system since age 16... I was in the same system. The generational talent IMO was Andrew De Boorder and we know how that went. I do agree with the skepticism regarding young un-earned charity picks, I would suggest some of the older selections are charity picks too. Remember when some of you said Kane wasn't ready for First Class cricket when he debuted or it was too early, when he's the definition of generational talent.

I'm mainly coming from the give 30 year old journeyman/other first class players imports that come in for a couple of years at the end. I think its the profile of player thats concerning to me, its not like they are bringing in some genuine first class consistent performers to help out with experience/ development, its guys who couldn't make it elsewhere on other circuits coming here PAST their prime (Summerville is 36 ffs, Delport 33), and although I don't #experience gimmick, are ewe really saying guys like Brad Rodden with his mighty 8 games brings experience and know how?

No different to how I felt with Craig Cachopa up and leaving Auckland when he had one good season, showing no loyalty to the system thats gifted him opportunities (could argue he was the most promising of the brothers), leaves for UK to try qualify there, finds it difficult converts himself to white ball specialist comes back and gets the armband immediately only to retire at 28, if we so strong depth wise why are we giving guys coming back out of form automatic selection and responsibility? I woudl rather we look within and develop than be so quick to get in these "journeyman" guys.

Obviously I agree with your overall point but Auckland is full of examples of this, and the idea that talented guys have to leave their hometown to get ahead makes sense, but not if the reason they are leaving is because some borderline stalwart cant get a game anywhere else and has chosen Auckland now. Guys like Tuffey/Chris Martin made sense and were still peak performers when they moved to the big smoke.

Just a few frustrations that come from the big city I guess, Auckland is def more unique than other districts in sense of population.

#frustratedAcesfan

 

[Flem274*]

the 'earn your stripes son' style coach/selector needs to be a good communicator and open to changing his mind. i suspect that's where paul strang fell down - i don't want to put words in players mouths but iirc at least one said they left because strang didn't rate them and he doesn't change his mind. strang turned out to be completely wrong ftr.

auckland select their teams weirdly but they're not the only fc side who do. solia opening instead of in the middle order, the eternal faith in robbie o'donnell (he seriously needed those scores he just made) are two debateable picks i can think of. delport isn't really an issue because he's taking wickets and somerville is a successful black cap. it's easy to say ashok should have played now he's topped the club charts but come on you don't want to throw in a n00b leggie with zero cv to the fc cricket wolves.

if i were ashok, or a deposed delport, i'd go to wellington or canterbury. younghusband and van woerkom are easier targets than will somerville.

 

[Immenso]

I certainly had a double take when I saw Rodden in the XI.

 

[Bahnz]

Starting to really like this Otago team. Talent-wise they’re running off the smell of an oily rag, but they’ve managed to clamber their way up to mid table respectability thanks to the consistent efforts of a few journeyman cricketers. Truly the NZ of the Plunket Shield.

Also, how long before Rippon is a serious candidate for a debut?