2015 Final Test Rankings - Steve Smith #1, Williamson #2, Voges #11

[Daemon]

Coz "I guess" shows I have proof. Dude, it was clear that was speculation on my part. And that post was topical to the post I was responding to. Stop quoting it out of context.

mind ****ing blown. you want context? here you go


People were discussing whether Australia would enjoy a bigger advantage on flatter decks or ones with more spice, see this -

Yeah, true. I don't think that's really helped us overall though, because I reckon we'd win on slightly spicier pitches anyway (so long as they were fast) and would be better suited for trickier conditions overseas.

You then quoted the above (15 hours after it was made ftr) with this -

Maybe, but I guess the powers that be in the Australian Team may not share that opinion. They are ok to trade in a few draws every home series as long as they can ensure only they can win the series. Used to happen in India plenty in the 90s and heck, even in 2000s. Prepare absolute flat tracks and hope they break up over days 4 and 5 and hope again that our spinners are good enough to eke out the win in those 6 sessions.

Jedibrah and Spark disagreed and said that the Australian team do not share that opinion -

If you mean just in the very recent past, this simply isn't true. The Aus team have been very public in thinking that the tracks over the last 18 months have been too flat.

ugh. No. Nothing even remotely like that is happening. That's what the last few pages of this thread have largely been about, Australia needs to start taking advantage of home conditions by preparing conducive conditions, which they haven't at all lately. Often the opposite has been happening .

You clearly did not comprehend this because you then replied saying that they are preparing tracks that suit them and would make it impossible to lose, while also bringing in some bull**** that I've bolded

If they prepare really fast tracks that aid swing, their bowlers will be lethal but their batsmen will fall over just like the Indian batsmen were in good spinning conditions earlier this year. Australia are simply doing what India did in the 2000s and yes, that is still taking the home advantage and ensuring they get pitches that they have the best chance to win on, but of course, in this case, it is also ensuring that they get the type of pitches where the opposition has almost zero chance to win on. There is nothing wrong with it but you people have to quit pretending as if this Aussie team is God's gift to cricket and they play on any wicket given to them without a whimper. They are obviously playing their home tests on pitches which give the opposition the worst chance to beat them in.

 

[honestbharani]

so you're not saying that the pitches are being asked for by the Australian management/team?

Because that is literally what this whole argument has been about

Of course I am not. I said "if they had asked, they could have done that for so and so reason"... I don't think it is a coincidence that they are playing flat fast decks when they have batsmen and bowlers who love such conditions but as I said earlier, it is just speculation. They have obviously not come out openly and asked for certain conditions like other teams have.

 

[Daemon]

so you're not saying that the pitches are being asked for by the Australian management/team?

Because that is literally what this whole argument has been about

Exactly. Debating which kind of pitch suits Australia the most is fine but I have no idea what hb is trying to argue here.

 

[honestbharani]

mind ****ing blown. you want context? here you go


People were discussing whether Australia would enjoy a bigger advantage on flatter decks or ones with more spice, see this -



You then quoted the above (15 hours after it was made ftr) with this -



Jedibrah and Spark disagreed and said that the Australian team do not share that opinion -






You clearly did not comprehend this because you then made a post saying that they are preparing tracks that suit them and would make it impossible to lose, while also bringing in some irrelevant bull**** that I've bolded

Obviously, I did not respond to those posts. Again, you are mistaking my speculation for a fact. I don't KNOW that Australia are asking for such pitches. But I do think it is no coincidence. That is speculation on my part. And yes, the bolded line was about them whining about pitches when they go outside Australia. And FWIW, I was catching up on the thread and responding on the go as I always do. So between responding to older posts and seeing the newer ones in the latest pages, I did not write a response to those posts. I say this again, you are quoting a post out of context.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Of course I am not. I said "if they had asked, they could have done that for so and so reason"... I don't think it is a coincidence that they are playing flat fast decks when they have batsmen and bowlers who love such conditions but as I said earlier, it is just speculation. They have obviously not come out openly and asked for certain conditions like other teams have.

omfg you can't be serious

then wtf have you been arguing about? No one said anywhere that Australian conditions don't suit their players

The whole topic of discussion was purely about countries deliberately preparing conducive pitches. So basically all your posts were completely irrelevant.

 

[Daemon]

Obviously, I did not respond to those posts. Again, you are mistaking my speculation for a fact. I don't KNOW that Australia are asking for such pitches. But I do think it is no coincidence. That is speculation on my part. And yes, the bolded line was about them whining about pitches when they go outside Australia. And FWIW, I was catching up on the thread and responding on the go as I always do. So between responding to older posts and seeing the newer ones in the latest pages, I did not write a response to those posts. I say this again, you are quoting a post out of context.

you literally QUOTED AND REPLIED DIRECTLY to all those posts. Go back and read them.

 

[TheJediBrah]

And yeah it wasn't speculation. You outright stated several times that Australia are deliberately preparing helpful pitches. Vehemently.

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

Jedi absolutely decimating people in this thread. Amazing how people take whatever they want to hear out of posts and run with it like madmen on peyote. Keep fighting the good fight TJB.

 

[honestbharani]

you literally QUOTED AND REPLIED DIRECTLY to all those posts. Go back and read them.

No.. obviously not to the Spark one. He had responded to mine and I had missed it. If I had responded to that, my points in this thread would have been a lot clearer. Again, you just brought it out of context.

Its very simply this: I am speculating Australia did ask for such pitches but obviously there is no real proof like with England or India asking for pitches that favor them at home. My argument was that Australia were still playing in conditions that favor them the most (by favoring the opposition the least) and hence performances by their players should not given any more leeway than the performances of say a spinner in India or a seamer in England.

And since you like reading my posts so much, go read to the ones I originally responded to first in this thread. They were all belittling other players' achievements in conditions that favored them, while glorifying achievements of Aussies which were achieved in conditions that were helping them the most too.

And yeah, that has been a topic of this thread too, even if the last few pages may have taken it to about home advantage and who asked for it publicly and who didn't.

 

[honestbharani]

Jedi absolutely decimating people in this thread. Amazing how people take whatever they want to hear out of posts and run with it like madmen on peyote. Keep fighting the good fight TJB.

Yep.. refusing to accept facts does win the good fight.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No one uses the word 'rotations' with regards to spin bowling when they talk cricket. But the attempt to sound smart by using different words for the sake of it is adorable though. You aren't the first one to say something similar to me, trust me. But seeing as you are not a mod, you know where the ****ing door is.

Yeah the do. All the time lol.

And I was honestly just trying to help you

 

[honestbharani]

And yeah it wasn't speculation. You outright stated several times that Australia are deliberately preparing helpful pitches. Vehemently.

NO, I said they were playing on pitches that helped them the most, Vehemently. That they would have had the same amount of success overall if they played on conditions any different.

 

[honestbharani]

omfg you can't be serious

then wtf have you been arguing about? No one said anywhere that Australian conditions don't suit their players

The whole topic of discussion was purely about countries deliberately preparing conducive pitches. So basically all your posts were completely irrelevant.

Your glorifying of Aussie players' achievements and belittling of every other player around the worlds' was exactly that, btw.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No.. obviously not to the Spark one. He had responded to mine and I had missed it. If I had responded to that, my points in this thread would have been a lot clearer. Again, you just brought it out of context.

Its very simply this: I am speculating Australia did ask for such pitches but obviously there is no real proof like with England or India asking for pitches that favor them at home. My argument was that Australia were still playing in conditions that favor them the most (by favoring the opposition the least) and hence performances by their players should not given any more leeway than the performances of say a spinner in India or a seamer in England.

And since you like reading my posts so much, go read to the ones I originally responded to first in this thread. They were all belittling other players' achievements in conditions that favored them, while glorifying achievements of Aussies which were achieved in conditions that were helping them the most too.

And yeah, that has been a topic of this thread too, even if the last few pages may have taken it to about home advantage and who asked for it publicly and who didn't.

Not that complicated. No one would argue that Smith/Williamson/Root aren't the 3 best bats in the world.

But there is doubt on Ashwin as no.1 bowler. If only because Jadeja is no. 6 apparently. Can you honestly tell me you think Jadeja is the 6th best bowler in the world?

btw I never said I didn't think Ashwin was the best bowler in the world. Just analysing and speculating.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Your glorifying of Aussie players' achievements and belittling of every other player around the worlds' was exactly that, btw.

literally never happened. If you're referring to the first post in the thread ie "Smith back to rightful place etc", was obviously jokingly stated

 

[Spark]

Not that complicated. No one would argue that Smith/Williamson/Root aren't the 3 best bats in the world.

But there is doubt on Ashwin as no.1 bowler. If only because Jadeja is no. 6 apparently. Can you honestly tell me you think Jadeja is the 6th best bowler in the world?

btw I never said I didn't think Ashwin was the best bowler in the world. Just analysing and speculating.

Gonna assume that you've just forgotten about ABdV here.

 

[TheJediBrah]

NO, I said they were playing on pitches that helped them the most, Vehemently. That they would have had the same amount of success overall if they played on conditions any different.

I could easily go back and quote your posts you know . . . lol

might as well:

Maybe, but I guess the powers that be in the Australian Team may not share that opinion. They are ok to trade in a few draws every home series as long as they can ensure only they can win the series. Used to happen in India plenty in the 90s and heck, even in 2000s. Prepare absolute flat tracks and hope they break up over days 4 and 5 and hope again that our spinners are good enough to eke out the win in those 6 sessions.

If they prepare really fast tracks that aid swing, their bowlers will be lethal but their batsmen will fall over just like the Indian batsmen were in good spinning conditions earlier this year. Australia are simply doing what India did in the 2000s and yes, that is still taking the home advantage and ensuring they get pitches that they have the best chance to win on, but of course, in this case, it is also ensuring that they get the type of pitches where the opposition has almost zero chance to win on. There is nothing wrong with it but you people have to quit pretending as if this Aussie team is God's gift to cricket and they play on any wicket given to them without a whimper. They are obviously playing their home tests on pitches which give the opposition the worst chance to beat them in.

on roads prepared to ensure Australia cannot ever lose their home tests ...

Yeah, kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you're contradicting yourself completely from page to page

 

[TheJediBrah]

Gonna assume that you've just forgotten about ABdV here.

yeah fair enough

 

[honestbharani]

I could easily go back and quote your posts you know . . . lol

might as well:







Yeah, kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you're contradicting yourself completely from page to page

lol... I said they are getting pitches that help them the most. Where did I say they publicly asked for it? The first two posts you quoted were obviously based why they would want such pitches more than pitches that are fast and seaming. Where in either post did I say the Aussie TEam Mgmt specifically asked for such pitches. I have my doubts given how suddenly all tracks in Australia seem to be flat and fast just when they have batsmen and bowlers that like such pitches the most, and that was not the point I was making at all. The question was why will they want such tracks more than green seaming ones and that was my answer. Not hard to understand, except when you just love to deny facts.

 

[Spark]

Haha, what? Pitches in Australia have always been roads in the last 15-20 years. It's just that in the last two years that they've become even more roady, and that's been to the detriment of the Aus team which had no trouble beating sides without high quality fast bowlers before then anyway.

The teams that can and have beaten Australia are those with the best fast bowlers over the last decades: Steyn, Broad, Anderson. This ain't an accident.