2000s debutant test XI

[trundler]

Root has a good record in India and everywhere else except Australia.

Younis record is poor in South Africa and West Indies. In Australia, it was poor as well but he managed to score a 170+ on a lifeless flat pitch in Sydney in a dead rubber. In high profile games away from home, he is likely to fail as compared to Kohli, Root and de Villiers.

Nonetheless, he is an excellent player of spin and I will pick him in Asia. But outside Asia, certainly No.

When you don't count Younis's runs his record is indeed pretty bad. Root has played a dozen or so games in Australia without scoring a single ton even in some pretty flat conditions. The SCG is still the same. And he has an ok record in India which is upheld by one double ton on a deck that was flat as anything, so by your logic it shouldn't count. And Root's record is awful in Pakistan too if we're checklisting this. Younis is a slam dunk in Asia as well as Australia. That's the majority of conditions. Even outside of those Younis is much more likely to score big, vital runs when he gets a sniff. Root and Kohli aren't "all conditions" players any more so than Younis. And Root's conversion issues are a big, big downside compared to someone like Younis. It's baffling to give him a pass for that when comparing him to elite batsmen. Younis got runs when he shouldn't have and Root gets out cheaply when there are runs to be made.

 

[capt_Luffy]

When you don't count Younis's runs his record is indeed pretty bad. Root has played a dozen or so games in Australia without scoring a single ton even in some pretty flat conditions. The SCG is still the same. And he has an ok record in India which is upheld by one double ton on a deck that was flat as anything, so by your logic it shouldn't count. And Root's record is awful in Pakistan too if we're checklisting this. Younis is a slam dunk in Asia as well as Australia. That's the majority of conditions. Even outside of those Younis is much more likely to score big, vital runs when he gets a sniff. Root and Kohli aren't "all conditions" players any more so than Younis. And Root's conversion issues are a big, big downside compared to someone like Younis. It's baffling to give him a pass for that when comparing him to elite batsmen. Younis got runs when he shouldn't have and Root gets out cheaply when there are runs to be made.

How come Virat is not all conditional?? Is ATG at home and Australia, arguably the best in SA, has great series against strong attack in SL and even his only legit hole, he still has an ATG series in England. That's pretty All conditional personally.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Kohli and De Villiers are all conditions/bowling players

Root is not (weak against high pace and bounce but excellent against spin and medium pace)

 

[trundler]

How come Virat is not all conditional?? Is ATG at home and Australia, arguably the best in SA, has great series against strong attack in SL and even his only legit hole, he still has an ATG series in England. That's pretty All conditional personally.

No more than Younis is what I said.

 

[Majestic]

When you don't count Younis's runs his record is indeed pretty bad. Root has played a dozen or so games in Australia without scoring a single ton even in some pretty flat conditions. The SCG is still the same. And he has an ok record in India which is upheld by one double ton on a deck that was flat as anything, so by your logic it shouldn't count. And Root's record is awful in Pakistan too if we're checklisting this. Younis is a slam dunk in Asia as well as Australia. That's the majority of conditions. Even outside of those Younis is much more likely to score big, vital runs when he gets a sniff. Root and Kohli aren't "all conditions" players any more so than Younis. And Root's conversion issues are a big, big downside compared to someone like Younis. It's baffling to give him a pass for that when comparing him to elite batsmen. Younis got runs when he shouldn't have and Root gets out cheaply when there are runs to be made.

Root's double ton came in winning cause. It is a pretty absurd claim to read that it doesn't count because in last 10 years, opposition team has managed to beat India in a test match only 4 times. India, on other hand have won like 30 times. Additionally, his 100 in Ranchi Test came on a tough pitch.

The runs Younis got in Sydney, neither the conditions were tough to bat nor did he changed the consequence of the game let alone the series. He has hardly done much in Australia outside of that, skipped tough away tours around 2009-10. He could barely help Pakistan save a test match in Australia let alone win it.

Pakistan pitches are flat and Root not scoring basically means he failed to cash on there because he has scored a lot of runs in tough conditions and as lone warrior, whether in England,India, Sri Lanka, South Africa, New Zealand, UAE everywhere except Australia. Failing in one country is a pass. Ponting also failed in India. Additionally, Root's longevity with bat and a decent 6th bowling option strengthens his claim as a test batter above YK.

 

[Majestic]

Kohli and De Villiers are all conditions/bowling players

Root is not (weak against high pace and bounce but excellent against spin and medium pace)

Look at his record vs South Africa. He won two series there, 2016 and one more.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Younis is no doubt an excellent test player but when you pit him up vs all round top class players like Root, Kohli and de Villiers, I think he would fall short for this reason. It's like not looking comfortable but still keeping a hope that somehow runs will come. That certainly don't boost as much confidence as all round all conditions players like Kohli, de Villiers and Root boost against all types of bowling.

It is not how someone looks when batting; it is how effective they are that counts. YK was mentally tougher than all 3 of Root, Kohli, and ABDV. He was almost at Miandad/Dravid level which is higher than those 3.

 

[trundler]

Root's double ton came in winning cause. It is a pretty absurd claim to read that it doesn't count because in last 10 years, opposition team has managed to beat India in a test match only 4 times. India, on other hand have won like 30 times. Additionally, his 100 in Ranchi Test came on a tough pitch.

The runs Younis got in Sydney, neither the conditions were tough to bat nor did he changed the consequence of the game let alone the series. He has hardly done much in Australia outside of that, skipped tough away tours around 2009-10. He could barely help Pakistan save a test match in Australia let alone win it.

Pakistan pitches are flat and Root not scoring basically means he failed to cash on there because he has scored a lot of runs in tough conditions and as lone warrior, whether in England,India, Sri Lanka, South Africa, New Zealand, UAE everywhere except Australia. Failing in one country is a pass. Ponting also failed in India.

You're faulting Younis for the bowling attacks he played with. And Root has had ample time to do something in Australia even on the very same SCG but failed time and time again. It is a glaring prolapse in his record you are not willing to even admit.

Failing to score runs is failing to score runs. Root doesn't get a pass for it. There would be a conversation to be had about scoring soft runs if converting pitiful fifties wasn't Root's Achilles heel. There's a reason Younis still has more tons than Root.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Additionally, Root's longevity with bat and a decent 6th bowling option strengthens his claim as a test batter above YK.

????

1. Joe Root has played test cricket for 12 years, whereas YK played for 17.

2. What has bowling got to do with batting ability?

 

[capt_Luffy]

No more than Younis is what I said.

Yeah, but Younis legitimately has a bad record in WI and SA. While Kohli has generally struggled in England, still has an ATG series there. Fwiw, I don't think it's clear between these two and the thing Younis have in favour vs Kohli is arguably being the best batsman in SC, not being as good in Australia or Saffa.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think he might be trolling at this point

 

[Majestic]

It is not how someone looks when batting; it is how effective they are that counts. YK was mentally tougher than all 3 of Root, Kohli, and ABDV. He was almost at Miandad/Dravid level which is higher than those 3.

I am talking about performance too otherwise Smith would have been worse than all of them but he is the best.

YK enjoyed the luxury of playing in lifeless UAE pitches for long and he barely toured overseas enough. Guys like Root, Kohli, de Villiers has multiple tours overseas and those were tough competitive away tours while YK had it easy in UAE vs top teams where the pacers really didn't had much assistance and boosted his stats via playing weaker oppositions like BD, Sri Lanka etc in UAE.
Just compare how many tests Kohli has played outside Asia and how many YK played as a reference.

 

[Majestic]

????

1. Joe Root has played test cricket for 12 years, whereas YK played for 17.

2. What has bowling got to do with batting ability?

And yet Root has more runs than YK and that too vs stronger opponents than him.

That was in context of who you would pick in your XI? The thread is about 2000s debut test XI.

 

[capt_Luffy]

And yet Root has more runs than YK and that too vs stronger opponents than him.

That was in context of who you would pick in your XI? The thread is about 2000s debut test XI.

That's because of Root playing more matches due to the busy English Test schedule. It's not really YK's fault that Pak played less Tests. He hit the ground over a longer timeframe.

 

[Majestic]

Younis Bhai has lived a life of a rich man, playing only 38 tests outside Asia.

Virat Kohli has played 52 tests outside Asia in lesser tests than Younis Bhai. Look at Dravid's stats overseas, saying YK is in same class as Dravid is gold comedy standard.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[Majestic]

That's because of Root playing more matches due to the busy English Test schedule. It's not really YK's fault that Pak played less Tests. He hit the ground over a longer timeframe.

And that won't have an impact on batting averages over an entire career? Playing vs stronger opponents and you think you will simply compare plain averages when comparing with a player who enjoyed the luxury of playing weaker nations more so than Root?

 

[Majestic]

I think he might be trolling at this point

You might as well stop thinking.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Younis Bhai has lived a life of a rich man, playing only 38 tests outside Asia.

Virat Kohli has played 52 tests outside Asia in lesser tests than Younis Bhai. Look at Dravid's stats overseas, saying YK is in same class as Dravid is gold comedy standard.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

I said he is ALMOST at that level. I also referred to mental toughness - AB didn't score many 100s while Smith, Kallis, and Amla batted ahead of him, Root is poor at converting 50s to 100s, and Kohli has had 3-4 years of really struggling

 

[Fuller Pilch]

And that won't have an impact on batting averages over an entire career? Playing vs stronger opponents and you think you will simply compare plain averages when comparing with a player who enjoyed the luxury of playing weaker nations more so than Root?

No, it is much easier (especially for batsmen) playing 4 and 5 test series rather than 2 and 3 test series

 

[Majestic]

No, it is much easier (especially for batsmen) playing 4 and 5 test series rather than 2 and 3 test series

Disagree. Tough 4-5 match away tours will hurt the stats more likely than 2-3 match away tours. There is a reason why the second best batsman for England during Root's career averaged 35 for long time , which is almost 15 less than what Joe Root averages.

In contrast, Pakistan had Azhar Ali who managed to maintain an average of 42 in Tests and Misbah averaged 46 with bat. If these players played tough opponents and tough tours regularly, their stats would have hurt more significantly than it appears now.