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***Official*** South Africa in India
- Thread starter ret
- Start date
silentstriker
The Wheel is Forever
No way we should be losing to these guys. Not at home. But you play like that, and you won't get any sympathy from me - the loss is completely deserved. SA have dominated the first day.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Wow, didnt see a ball of it. looked an interesting days cricket.
I dont think it would make much of a difference but I hate (and said) that Indian batting line-up. Its far too brittle. There is (on career record) a substandard number 7 batting at 6 and an allrounder of 'dubious' batting credentials at 7.
I can tell you exactly what the SA team talk would be "Lets come hard. 2-3 quick wickets are essential as there is no depth and they will collapse. Dont give their top few players the opportunity to settle and get in and make up for the long tail. Come at them hard and there is nothing to stop us sweeping them aside"
I dont think it would make much of a difference but I hate (and said) that Indian batting line-up. Its far too brittle. There is (on career record) a substandard number 7 batting at 6 and an allrounder of 'dubious' batting credentials at 7.
I can tell you exactly what the SA team talk would be "Lets come hard. 2-3 quick wickets are essential as there is no depth and they will collapse. Dont give their top few players the opportunity to settle and get in and make up for the long tail. Come at them hard and there is nothing to stop us sweeping them aside"
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
The choice of Dhoni and Irfan may be 'dubious' and 'substandard', but that's the best they have by a long way. They also have a massive on-the-day factor, though consistency isn't there on show
And once again, Dhoni and Irfan are easily blamed for a collective failure, when there are nine others who have failed on the day. When they have four big names ahead of them (big indeed), they can afford to play such a combination (and Kumble and Bhajji at eight and nine are competent)- and nothing is said about the failures of Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid and Sehwag. They've all been a failure, and it's obvious.
Even South Africa don't bat too deep in this match, with Boucher at seven.
ret
International Debutant
the top 5 are suppose to do the job ..... but we have two duds in the top 5 in Jaffar and Ganguly .... Laxman is ok and not the very very special he was before, Dravid hasn't been batting well, i guess, Sehwag's batting at the other end at Chennai probably helped him and Jaffar to get some total .... last night I was thinking what if Sehwag had scored a duck at Chennai, would India have followed on .... i guess, i got my answer today
such pointless batting made me lose interest in cricket in 2007, esp after the Wc 07 debacle .... the young Ind ODI/20T team helped me get back to cricket .... now these guys are again taking it to a new low .... 5th disgraceful collapse in last 6 tests
such pointless batting made me lose interest in cricket in 2007, esp after the Wc 07 debacle .... the young Ind ODI/20T team helped me get back to cricket .... now these guys are again taking it to a new low .... 5th disgraceful collapse in last 6 tests
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
The India line up is moderately deep. I dont deny that for a second. Its just the quality gets thin quickly. To run out of specialist batsmen partnerships after 4 wickets is dangerous. Effectively, all it takes is 1 good spell and the tail is beginning. Playing 5 batsmen is very, very dangerous. In fact, no matter what the team, Ive repeatedly called it one of the most foolhardy things to do in Test cricket.
India is long but lacking in quality. de Viliers and Boucher at 6 and 7 is light years ahead of Dhoni and Pathan.
In Test cricket you need 7 batsmen and 8 and 9 are annoying players that if they score runs are a bonus and get on the oppositions nerves. Like a Warne or a Lee.
India have not got enough ammunition in this line up.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
You're stuck with Jaffer (who should have never got a game ahead of Gambhir in that England series in 2005) so you have to stay with him, especially when he's got a few good scores. The team needs some solidity at the top of the order, so they stay with him. He too, like most Indian players, has a massive on-the-day factor backing him, and he's also rather consistent (in comparison to some others) but not very versatile.the top 5 are suppose to do the job ..... but we have two duds in the top 5 in Jaffar and Ganguly .... Laxman is ok and not the very very special he was before, Dravid hasn't been batting well, i guess, Sehwag's batting at the other end at Chennai probably helped him and Jaffar to get some total .... last night I was thinking what if Sehwag had scored a duck at Chennai, would India have followed on .... i guess, i got my answer today
such pointless batting made me lose interest in cricket in 2007, esp after the Wc 07 debacle .... the young Ind ODI/20T team helped me get back to cricket .... now these guys are again taking it to a new low .... 5th disgraceful collapse in last 6 tests
As for Ganguly, he's played for over a decade, scored over ten centuries including a few over 150, accumulating loads of runs at an average over 40, so you surely expect a lot, lot more from him (and Laxman) than, say, Yuvraj or Kaif or any of the wicketkeepers.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
No. Every partnership that has batsmen is very valuable. Its tough to ask 5 guys to do it all. Strength in depth is key.
There are many examples of a team being in the **** and a guy at 6 or 7 has got them out of trouble as they are a good player and the team has depth. Only having 5 bats means that once you are in trouble there is no way out.
That is gambling cricket. No plan B
ret
International Debutant
Dude, where do we get the depth? by playing 11 batsman?
usually, it's the top 5 who do the job, the two all-rounders help the batting and bowling/wk and the bowlers look to take 20 wkts
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
That lineup you see was put together purely to get 20 wickets. They've lost more than a few matches having failed to roll over the opposition twice, at home and away. With none of the batsmen willing to fill in for a missing bowler, and the seamers being under-staffed, they had to revert to Pathan.
Besides, if you replaced Pathan with Yuvraj Singh or any other batsman, you'd be carrying one dud in the team. Pathan has had a good match here. We haven't seen enough of those four collectively to say that man for man, de Villiers and Boucher are way ahead of Pathan and Dhoni, and again, they are the best options for India as of now, and lightyears ahead of the next best option. If anything, the captain, coach and all decision-makers have to use them to good effect, and they have been found wanting, not Dhoni and Irfan themeselves. The planning for the players in South Africa is so far ahead, not the players themselves.
In Tests, you need to take 20 wickets regularly to win consistently. But if the Indians play four bowlers, at least five of those 20 wickets are out of reach, and that's far more obvious than the brittleness of the batting lineup when they have Dhoni, Irfan, Kumble and Harbhajan at six to nine.
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Im obviously not keen on the composition.
However, if this is the way to go the line-up has to be lengthened.
That would mean Pathan doing what he has in the past and 'doing a Hall' and opening.
That would allow Dhoni to move to a more natural postion at 7 and have a specialist batsman at 6.
This lengthens the lineup as 3 quick wickets still means that there is quality to come.
Its not ideal, but if this is the team selected it is the best way to deal with the issue of completely frontloading the batting and reduce the risk of collapses.
However, if this is the way to go the line-up has to be lengthened.
That would mean Pathan doing what he has in the past and 'doing a Hall' and opening.
That would allow Dhoni to move to a more natural postion at 7 and have a specialist batsman at 6.
This lengthens the lineup as 3 quick wickets still means that there is quality to come.
Its not ideal, but if this is the team selected it is the best way to deal with the issue of completely frontloading the batting and reduce the risk of collapses.
ret
International Debutant
i disagree .... the balance was ok, the selection probably not .... it's the top 5 that didn't deliver
You're starting to?
I agree with what you're saying, but it has truly disgusted me how overrated his performances were in Australia. He received near-universal praise from all quarters...for taking 14 wickets at 39 whilst conceeding well over 4 runs an over. That would normally be the mark of a mediocre performance, not a praise-worthy one. Apparently, though, because his name is RP Singh and maybe even because he's Indian (more a comment on how pumped-up Indian seamers are than anything else), he can do no wrong. Geoff Boycott said that he even liked him, FFS. This is in direct contrast, to say Mitchell Johnson, who has received a lukewarm-at-best reception for his performances against India despite being at least respectable most of the time (in the Perth second-innings, he was very poor and he was missing something for much of Sydney). He took 16 wickets at 33; a fair reflection of this.
Let me go through RP Singh's spells in Australia:
Melbourne 2007 - Bowled well initially without much luck, but lost any wicket-taking threat as soon as the shine disappeared.
Sydney 2007 - Bowled well to take 4 wickets quickly, but he bowled utter dross to Symonds/Hogg/Lee (full balls followed by short balls - not intelligent bowling) and didn't much improve in the second innings.
Perth 2007 - He bowled better, but at least some of his wickets could be attributed to dumb shots or poor decisions (Hussey twice) and his economy rate, as you pointed out, was also ridiculous. He also relied a fair bit on the tail to take wickets - more than Johnson did in Melbourne, even. To give him credit, though, his 30 was annoying.
Adelaide 2007 - Not bowling here helped him, contrary to whatever Michael Slater or whoever it was said about him being a big force because of his so-called 'reverse swing'.
FWIW, I consider RP Singh to be the left-arm equivalent of James Anderson, insofar as that he is massively overhyped, somewhat overrated, can swing the ball, overly adventurous in his pursuit of swing, erratic and expensive (the two don't always have to be mutually exclusive) and utter cannon fodder when the ball refuses to move (as his battle with Symonds in Sydney showed). He, like Anderson, is also utterly inadequate most of the time.
Interesting tidbit: Do you know that his Test economy rate (4.06 as of a short while ago), is around as expensive as Fidel Edwards' is?
PS: He was also given 8.5/10 for his performance by Cricinfo, while Mitchell Johnson was given a 6. Figure that one out. This may prove what I've been saying about him all along...
BTW, even if you are an express bowler, going for 4+ RPO isn't a good look. Just ask Brett Lee. He once did on a regular basis.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
It does not matter what's balanced or off-balance, but when the top five contribute less than fifty (or even twenty) collectively, there's no point having even eight or eleven batsmen. There's absolutely no remedy for this rubbish- especially when that remedy may be Yuvraj Singh.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
A poor day for India; I will not be shocked if they lose this game. A loss will be beneficial to India though, as it will outline that problems still remain in their management of fast bowlers.
However, onto the positives and naturally, on to South Africa. It is interesting to see how successful Dale Steyn has been by angling it in and swinging it away from the stumps - will his purple patch ever end or are we seeing a future all time great? He has done it against New Zealand, Bangladesh, West Indies and now India.
However, onto the positives and naturally, on to South Africa. It is interesting to see how successful Dale Steyn has been by angling it in and swinging it away from the stumps - will his purple patch ever end or are we seeing a future all time great? He has done it against New Zealand, Bangladesh, West Indies and now India.