Shane Warne vs Curtly Ambrose

[OverratedSanity]

He did play more when he was younger than others - which allowed him have more runs and centuries due to more opportunities as a teen, but not necessarily a better record, I’d call him one of quite a few teen prodigies.

Teen prodigies imo

Tendulkar 25 matches 1522 @ 44.76 5 tons 8 fifties
Umar Akmal 6 matches 578 @ 48.16 1 ton 4 fifties
Pollock 5 matches 399 @ 57.00 2 tons
Harvey 4 matches 299 @ 75.75 2 tons

Waqar 11 matches 55 @ 19.49 5 5’fers 2 10’fers
Mohammad Amir 14 matches 51 @ 29.09 3 5’fers
Paul Adams 7 matches 31 @ 25.06 1 5’fer
Wasim 8 matches 28 @ 24.57 2 5’fers 1 10’fer

And the greatest teen prodigy of all time imo.

Javed Miandad 7 matches 655 @ 59.54 2 tons 3 fifties 14 wickets @ 32.85

By God this is dumb. Do you actually believe miandad is a better teen prodigy because he made runs when he was 19?

The difference in physical development a body goes through from age 15-19 is massive. A 16 year old is basically still a child. It's way more impressive to be test standard at that age.

 

[DrWolverine]

Except Sachin, I do not even think those are the real ages of the 15 youngest cricketers to play Tests.

 

[subshakerz]

By God this is dumb. Do you actually believe miandad is a better teen prodigy because he made runs when he was 19?

The difference in physical development a body goes through from age 15-19 is massive. A 16 year old is basically still a child. It's way more impressive to be test standard at that age.

Miandad didn't score abroad. But it's not really run output by teen Tendulkar that's impressive it's scoring hundreds in three different SENA countries in the first visit.

 

[DrWolverine]

By God this is dumb. Do you actually believe miandad is a better teen prodigy because he made runs when he was 19?

Was Miandad actually 19 years?
Or was it Pakistani 19 years in age?

 

[Coronis]

By God this is dumb. Do you actually believe miandad is a better teen prodigy because he made runs when he was 19?

The difference in physical development a body goes through from age 15-19 is massive. A 16 year old is basically still a child. It's way more impressive to be test standard at that age.

Erm no. I think he was more impressive because he was also taking 2 WPM at 33. In case you missed that. Obviously his bowling didn’t pan out, but yes that allround performance is definitely more impressive.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Miandad didn't score abroad. But it'd not really run output by teen Tendulkar that's impressive it's scoring hundreds in three different SENA countries in the first visit.

And a match saving fifty in pak vs Wasim, Waqar, Imran, qadir. And an 80 odd in nz vs Hadlee. He barely played any home games in his first 3/4 years. Trying to argue he wasn't teen prodigy is "Kapil was a better player of spin than viv" levels of stupidity.

 

[Prince EWS]

This forum is getting more and more ridiculous. Sachin wasn't a teen prodigy now?
The youngest cricketer to score a test ton in AUS is not an Australian but Sachin Tendulkar.
The youngest cricketer to score a test ton in ENG is not an Englishman but Sachin Tendulkar.
The youngest cricketer to score a test ton in SA is not an South African but Sachin Tendulkar (till date the only teenage centurion in the country).
He is also the youngest ever to score fifties in NZ and PAK.
There are only 9 batsmen in the history of test cricket to score a ton in SENA as a teenager, 6 of them have 1 ton, Neil Harvey and Graeme Pollock have 2 each (both from SENA btw). Sachin alone has 4. If you remove the SENA filter, still no one has more than 2 test tons as a teen, while Sachin has 5.
But sure, Sachin wasn't a prodigy now.

If Tendulkar wasn't a teen prodigy then noone was.

 

[smash84]

And a match saving fifty in pak vs Wasim, Waqar, Imran, qadir. And an 80 odd in nz vs Hadlee. He barely played any home games in his first 3/4 years. Trying to argue he wasn't teen prodigy is "Kapil was a better player of spin than viv" levels of stupidity.

I was mistaken about that.

I was going by memory and his output of earlier years was far overshadowed by his later years so I completely missed that.

 

[Coronis]

If Tendulkar wasn't a teen prodigy then noone was.

I mean I never said he wasn’t. Just that others were too.

 

[subshakerz]

And a match saving fifty in pak vs Wasim, Waqar, Imran, qadir. And an 80 odd in nz vs Hadlee. He barely played any home games in his first 3/4 years. Trying to argue he wasn't teen prodigy is "Kapil was a better player of spin than viv" levels of stupidity.

The only teen I saw doing similar impressive feats was Mohd Amir who did well in his first series in SL, set Pakistan to victory with an amazing first over in the T20 WC 2009 final, had a fifer in Aus in his first test, was amazing a whole season in Eng and was Wisden Cricketer of the Year, all by 18 years old.

 

[DrWolverine]

Trying to argue he wasn't teen prodigy is "Kapil was a better player of spin than viv" levels of stupidity.

Who said that?

 

[Coronis]

Who said that?

@Migara

 

[Thala_0710]

He did play more when he was younger than others - which allowed him have more runs and centuries due to more opportunities as a teen, but not necessarily a better record, I’d call him one of quite a few teen prodigies.

Teen prodigies imo

Tendulkar 25 matches 1522 @ 44.76 5 tons 8 fifties
Umar Akmal 6 matches 578 @ 48.16 1 ton 4 fifties
Pollock 5 matches 399 @ 57.00 2 tons
Harvey 4 matches 299 @ 75.75 2 tons

Waqar 11 matches 55 @ 19.49 5 5’fers 2 10’fers
Mohammad Amir 14 matches 51 @ 29.09 3 5’fers
Paul Adams 7 matches 31 @ 25.06 1 5’fer
Wasim 8 matches 28 @ 24.57 2 5’fers 1 10’fer

And the greatest teen prodigy of all time imo.

Javed Miandad 7 matches 655 @ 59.54 2 tons 3 fifties 14 wickets @ 32.85

Javed (if he was a teen) was pretty good but those stats are basically of a 19 yr old with 1 great home series vs NZ. Tendulkar's 19/25 matches were away from home with 15 in SENA and 4 in PAK. I think he is comfortably the greatest teen prodigy of all time.

 

[DrWolverine]

Sachin before turning 19

- 59 vs Imran, Akram & Qadir in Pak
- 57 vs Imran, Akram & Waqar in Pak
- 88 vs Hadlee in NZ
- 68 & 119 in Manchester
- 148 vs McDermott in Sydney
- 114 vs McDermott in Perth
- 111 vs Donald in Johannesburg
- 73 vs Donald in CapeTown

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Who said that?

Excuse me, he said Dev was a better playing spin than the entire WI lineup from that time which includes Alvin Kallicharan and Clive Lloyd. Stupid azz post!!

 

[Thala_0710]

Sachin before turning 19

- 59 vs Imran, Akram & Qadir in Pak
- 57 vs Imran, Akram & Waqar in Pak
- 88 vs Hadlee in NZ
- 68 & 119 in Manchester
- 148 vs McDermott in Sydney
- 114 vs McDermott in Perth
- 111 vs Donald in Johannesburg
- 73 vs Donald in CapeTown

The Sydney 148* was against Warne too

 

[Prince EWS]

I mean I never said he wasn’t. Just that others were too.

I think smali did though?

Tendulkar definitely the most famous one but I think Mushtaq was probably one even more so. Not sure what the original argument was though so not sure how relevant that is. It's probably only relevant when comparing the careers of Tendulkar and Mushtaq, and I know we go wildly off track at times but that would be a new record in a Warne vs Ambrose thread.

 

[Prince EWS]

Excuse me, he said Dev was a better playing spin than the entire WI lineup from that time which includes Alvin Kallicharan and Clive Lloyd. Stupid azz post!!

Your favourite.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I wrote at length about Imran's away record in multiple posts several years ago in a discussion very similar to this. I won't write it all again now as it's been said before (they're in the archives I'm sure for anyone who wants to look them up), but in summary I think there is a lot more context and nuance to it than simply a career away average of 25. For a long period of his career, Imran was spectacularly good away from home, against virtually everyone.

I've made some posts on the same. There were more flat pitches/high scoring draws in a lot of away series Imran played, than most other atg bowlers. And it doesn't appear the argument can be that they were high scoring only because Imran was less effective because he was out performing other good bowlers in many of these series. In many series he played with top tier ATGs like Marshall or Hadlee on the other side, he did as well or better too.

 

[subshakerz]

I've made some posts on the same. There were more flat pitches/high scoring draws in a lot of away series Imran played, than most other atg bowlers. And it doesn't appear the argument can be that they were high scoring only because Imran was less effective because he was out performing other good bowlers in many of these series. In many series he played with top tier ATGs like Marshall or Hadlee on the other side, he did as well or better too.

Exactly.

In NZ in 79 and 89 he played four tests, all drawn, with Hadlee not taking much wickets either. This idea that he had some major deficiency away compared to the others is wrong. But some don't want to see the context be think it's special pleading.