Shane Warne vs Dale Steyn

[subshakerz]

**** reverse

No. I care about an actual team for all conditions and the best attacks in cricket history have bowlers who complement each other and have different skills.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Needs reverse

That's best of the best imo, and Hadlee, Marshall and McGrath imo are the 3 best pace bowlers.

 

[subshakerz]

That's best of the best imo, and Hadlee, Marshall and McGrath imo are the 3 best pace bowlers.

Think like a captain who actually wants to play and not just pick players off some list.

One of those three will be hampered more but not having the new ball and you would prefer a variety of skills

 

[kyear2]

If Warne batted at Murali level I think you’d see a lot more split on ATG teams.

Definitely

 

[kyear2]

He already unignored him yesterday I believe.

Yeah, I said I was going to.

Still didn't respond with anything sensible.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, I said I was going to.

Still didn't respond with anything sensible.

Whereas you still don't actually respond to arguments.

 

[kyear2]

dude maybe before cackling read the context. I said if Bumrah turns out better than Marshall. Man...

It was still a stupid ass sentiment.

 

[kyear2]

You said you don't want bowlers from the same era and a mix of swing, seam and reverse. The era thing makes no sense.

I disagree.

Would you pick 3 batsmen from the 20's / 30's?

Mix the eras and conditions faced.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Think like a captain who actually wants to play and not just pick players off some list.

One of those three will be hampered more but not having the new ball and you would prefer a variety of skills

Umm the above is not my actual XI. The above is the best of the best imo. Best openers, middle order and pace bowlers. Spin is a toss up so I landed on Warne.

 

[kyear2]

Kyear2 also abides by that logic iirc.

Even Kyear agrees with me on that. Best to mix eras to be somewhat representative.

Just makes sense.

Plus


Not picking the 3rd best bowler or batsman from.any singular era.

 

[smash84]

The eras thing doesn't make any sense.

When building ATG XIs we assume that players will carry their performances across eras. A great player in one era will be a great player in another era. Otherwise the whole exercise breaks down

 

[kyear2]

Yes but one could realistically replace Hutton with Gavaskar and him and Viv are from the same era. No?

That's 2 of 6, compared to 3 of 3.

Bigggg difference.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I disagree.

Would you pick 3 batsmen from the 20's / 30's?

Mix the eras and conditions faced.

Depends on the team tbh. For a world XI the era thing might make sense but for example for a WI Xi some players have to overlap.

 

[kyear2]

That is not the relevant statistic. What is relevent is how many 1st innings and second innings wickets wickets that the bowling attack took as a unit. When others takes wickets, they don't score off you as well.

I am not sure why 7 - 11 was selected.

Tail starts from 8.

Warne 37.1%
Murali 32.5%

Definite difference there.

First off that's not what I meant.

I meant that when the tail was in play, Murali has greater and more uncontested access to them.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

The eras thing doesn't make any sense.

When building ATG XIs we assume that players will carry their performances across eras. A great player in one era will be a great player in another era. Otherwise the whole exercise breaks down

This is my general sentiment as well, with few exceptions. An exception would be someone like a Matthew Hayden who had obvious limitations. He ain't averaging what he did in the 90s or 80s.

 

[kyear2]

My XI of absolute bests irrespective of 2nd skills:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman*
Sachin
Viv
Sobers
Gilchrist +
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Mcgrath

So what's wrong with that as an XI overall?

I know everyone thinks their XI is absolutely perfect, I certainly do. So I'll leave it be.

I think an XI should be perfectly balanced, taking into account everything, but with a heavy weighting towards primary skills and specific roles.

The roles part is where Wasim (greatest old ball bowler and unparalleled peer rating) and Barry (unparalleled aggressive bat and best of era) comes into play.

The rest is mostly chalk, with the one player it hurts me to omit on merit is Hadlee (well kinda Hobbs, but that's an era thing).

But I do try for balance as well. 8, 9 & 10 can all handle a bat, while being the best at what they do.

The difference I see is that with a great batting line up, you should need your tail less, and just focus on bowling out the opposition.
With a great bowling attack, especially mine and even more so if you swap Wasim for Hadlee, you need your cordon way more, and that's ignored here. Well mostly, think I have two allies in that fight.

Yes lower order batting is important, but it's blown way out of proportion here. Way more than I do with catching, and that's more critical and important imho.

 

[smash84]

This is my general sentiment as well, with few exceptions. An exception would be someone like a Matthew Hayden who had obvious limitations. He ain't averaging what he did in the 90s or 80s.

Yes, but Hayden's issues against great Bowlers especially Ambrose were well known. So it's not really a case of exception but to evaluate the case on merit.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Yes, but Hayden's issues against great Bowlers especially Ambrose were well known. So it's not really a case of exception but to evaluate the case on merit.

Shoot i meant to type example not exception.

 

[smash84]

Shoot i meant to type example not exception.

Yes, which is why having players from different eras doesn't make any sense.

The assumption is that players skills are transferable to other eras otherwise all the players would end up getting picked from the later eras.

 

[sayon basak]

Yes, which is why having players from different eras doesn't make any sense.

The assumption is that players skills are transferable to other eras otherwise all the players would end up getting picked from the later eras.

He might want his bowling line up to be representative of multiple eras.

Personally don't think I'd have a problem with any of the stances. I just want my team to be the best, any one of McGrath or Hadlee will do.