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Shane Warne vs Dale Steyn

Warne vs Steyn

  • Total voters
    38
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I can explain my reasoning outside Bradman and Sobers.

Tendulkar - best since Bradman, expanded horizons of batsmanship to new heights based on teen prodigy years and longevity

Viv - best bat of a bowling great era, best bat at peak outside Bradman, took batsmanship to unchartered waters with his master blaster hitting, also give him points for being WI talisman of greatest team ever and good captain

Imran - best ever bowling AR, greatest bowling peak, first to master reverse at highest level, ATG captain

Hobbs - best bat from England and unassailable feats of mastering conditions over long period

Hadlee -NZs first and greatest ATG cricketer and so vital to them

Marshall - greatest bowler ever

Warne - greatest spinner ever, took leg spin to unparalleled heights, popularized spin outside SC

Murali - greatest offspinner ever and greatest SL cricketer, took wicket taking proficiency to the maximum level ever, so vital to them
 
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subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
Wow. Well then allow me the opportunity to change your mind. You're starting a team tomorrow and you have choice of cricketers to include. Bradman and Sobers are gone. You're telling me you think Sachin would be more valuable over Imran and Paddles??
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No in that scenario I go with Imran and Hadlee.

But greatness is about the skill you have and evolution of the game too IMO.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
Grace I find hard to judge given his era.
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I mean

subshakerz said:
Ok but let's think broadly. Cricket isn't just winning games. It's also skill at batting and bowling and opening possibility to what that skill can achieve at the highest levels of proficiency and possibility, and evolving those skills.

I am looking at cricketers as the greatest who don't just have great results but opened uncharted territory in cricket based on the highest level of skill.
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This is literally a description of Grace’s career.

Its fine if you want to use influence on the game and such for a list - I think best and greatest are synonymous for some people, but not quite so for others, is this a case of this here? - but if so Grace most certainly should be one of the names on the list.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Coronis said:
I mean



This is literally a description of Grace’s career.

Its fine if you want to use influence on the game and such for a list - I think best and greatest are synonymous for some people, but not quite so for others, is this a case of this here? - but if so Grace most certainly should be one of the names on the list.
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You make a fair point. I just tend to preclude Grace for some reason as his era was not quite as professional but I will ruminate on this.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

First Class Debutant
subshakerz said:
I mean, they didn't expand the horizons of bowling the way Tendulkar and Viv did with batting IMO. But they will win you more games.
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What did Sachin expand?? He played for along time and made tons of runs. I'll give him that. Imran Literally helped pioneer a new type of pace bowling and was the first great out and out fast bowler from Asia. Hadlee is NZs literal only atg cricketer and kept them relevant as a cricketing nation. Oh and Imran led his country to WC glory.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
Yes, I fail to see how Sachin is a greater even by your definition. He might be better at primary skills but Imran definitely brings more to the table and has so many credits to his name. As slifer points out Reverse swing, first true fast bowler from Asia, add to that bringing in neutral umpires, as well as being an ATG captain. Hand picked people like Waqar and trained the 2 Ws to become what they really became. How is that not "greater" than what Sachin brings to the game?
 
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sayon basak

sayon basak

Cricketer Of The Year
subshakerz said:
You make a fair point. I just tend to preclude Grace for some reason as his era was not quite as professional but I will ruminate on this.
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You might not rate older players in your specialist lists, but they do demand a spot in the "greatest" cricketers list.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

First Class Debutant
smash84 said:
Yes, I fail to see how Sachin is a greater even by your definition. He might be better at primary skills but Imran definitely brings more to the table and has so many credits to his name. As slifer points iut6Reverse swing, first true fast bowler from Asia, add to that bringing in neutral umpires, as well as being an ATG captain. Hand picked people like Waqar and trained the 2 Ws to become what they really became. How is that not "greater" than what Sachin brings to the game?
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It really isn't close. Tbh, the only reason I rate Sobers higher is because he was an atg fielder everywhere which gives him the edge imo.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
smash84 said:
Yes, I fail to see how Sachin is a greater even by your definition. He might be better at primary skills but Imran definitely brings more to the table and has so many credits to his name. As slifer points iut6Reverse swing, first true fast bowler from Asia, add to that bringing in neutral umpires, as well as being an ATG captain. Hand picked people like Waqar and trained the 2 Ws to become what they really became. How is that not "greater" than what Sachin brings to the game?
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Yes I grant Imran all that. Lol you don't need to sell me on Imran. I'm usually the one doing that.

There are a few other X factors with Tendulkar. But I am swayed at him being, aside from a god like Bradman, the most skilled at his specialisation IMO than any other cricketer.
 
smash84

smash84

The Tiger King
subshakerz said:
Yes I grant Imran all that. Lol you don't need to sell me on Imran. I'm usually the one doing that.

There are a few other X factors with Tendulkar. But I am swayed at him being, aside from a god like Bradman, the most skilled at his specialisation IMO than any other cricketer.
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So you're essentially ignoring your own definition and then just rating him on primary skill excellence? :wacko:
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
What did Sachin expand?? He played for along time and made tons of runs. I'll give him that. Imran Literally helped pioneer a new type of pace bowling and was the first great out and out fast bowler from Asia. Hadlee is NZs literal only atg cricketer and kept them relevant as a cricketing nation. Oh and Imran led his country to WC glory.
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Sachin was a prodigy as a teen. It's almost impossible to think of a teen bat coming and doing what he did.

And he is benchmark as far as longevity of cricket goes.
 
Johan

Johan

Cricketer Of The Year
After thinking, My number one is Bradman, two is Sobers, three is Hadlee, four is probably Hobbs or Imran, then probably Marshall/McGrath/Barnes, then probably Sachin or Viv
 
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