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Viv Richards vs Glen McGrath

Greater Cricketer

  • Total voters
    30
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
subshakerz said:
Interesting. What switched your mind?

To me I can't have a no.1 pacer of all time who doesn't have pace.
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He has pace. His performance relative to his peers, his performance in Australia during the 00’s, the longevity factor. Like Marshall had to retire from tests when he was just 31.5. This would be like if Cummins retired now. (in fact both were picked and then missed a few years)
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Coronis said:
He has pace. His performance relative to his peers, his performance in Australia during the 00’s, the longevity factor. Like Marshall had to retire from tests when he was just 31.5. This would be like if Cummins retired now. (in fact both were picked and then missed a few years)
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I disagree but respect your opinion and these are fair points.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
Coronis said:
He has pace. His performance relative to his peers, his performance in Australia during the 00’s, the longevity factor. Like Marshall had to retire from tests when he was just 31.5. This would be like if Cummins retired now. (in fact both were picked and then missed a few years)
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Surely his away performances count for more? They were magnificent in the 2000s when the vast majority of pitches were roads, and his performances were way ahead of the competition, while a number of bowlers performed well at home.

Home bowlers pretty much always find a way of making things work. There is something in every deck for some type of bowler. Aus was a bit of a batting paradise, but still very bouncy. For a bowler like Mcgrath, it's a weaker version of Sanga and Murali both had it easy at home. Which is not to suggest Mcgrath had an easy job at home.

And there is an issue of visitors struggling to adjust to alien conditions that boosts home performances.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
Bolo. said:
Surely his away performances count for more? They were magnificent in the 2000s when the vast majority of pitches were roads, and his performances were way ahead of the competition, while a number of bowlers performed well at home.

Home bowlers pretty much always find a way of making things work. There is something in every deck for some type of bowler. Aus was a bit of a batting paradise, but still very bouncy. For a bowler like Mcgrath, it's a weaker version of Sanga and Murali both had it easy at home. Which is not to suggest Mcgrath had an easy job at home.

And there is an issue of visitors struggling to adjust to alien conditions that boosts home performances.
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Ofc his away performances also count. I was more pointing out the relative flatness of Australian pitches.

But yes his away record is probably even more impressive.

Pacers away in the 00’s during McGrath’s career (min 50 wickets)
McGrath 127 @ 19.96
Pathan 65 @ 25.20
Pollock 122 @ 28.36
Gillespie 105 @ 28.90
Hoggard 118 @ 29.30 @Prince EWS

Just checked with neutral conditions added - McGrath drops to 19.06 with the matches against Pakistan.

Shoaib is 49 @ 17.65 excluding UAE matches.
 
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subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bolo. said:
Home bowlers pretty much always find a way of making things work. There is something in every deck for some type of bowler. Aus was a bit of a batting paradise, but still very bouncy. For a bowler like Mcgrath, it's a weaker version of Sanga and Murali both had it easy at home. Which is not to suggest Mcgrath had an easy job at home.
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You're correct. Flat 2000s Aus tracks wouldn't neuter McGrath much. McGrath still had a degree on bounce on Aussie tracks in the 2000s even if less lateral movement so it's not like he was bowling in Faisalabad.

However I will say SC decks in general are not pace friendly.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
Coronis said:
Ofc his away performances also count. I was more pointing out the relative flatness of Australian pitches.

But yes his away record is probably even more impressive.

Pacers away in the 00’s during McGrath’s career (min 50 wickets)
McGrath 127 @ 19.96
Pathan 65 @ 25.20
Pollock 122 @ 28.36
Gillespie 105 @ 28.90
Hoggard 118 @ 29.30 @Prince EWS

Just checked with neutral conditions added - McGrath drops to 19.06 with the matches against Pakistan.

Shoaib is 49 @ 17.65 excluding UAE matches.
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Here is the list of home averages in the 2000s for comparison using your 50 wicket minimum. Top 10 is sub 25 average and has 4 Aussies (and some seriously meh away bowlers).

Mcgraths away performances were way, way more impressive than his home ones.

1000008266.jpg
 
The Sean

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
akilana said:
Not sure. He retired at 33 with 376 wickets. He was one of the top 3 wicket takers(?) when he retired.
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I suppose that's still pretty early though. Hadlee played his last Test at 39, McGrath was a month short of 37. It's amazing when you watch Lillee in his final series that he was only 34 - he looks about 50.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Hall of Fame Member
The Sean said:
I suppose that's still pretty early though. Hadlee played his last Test at 39, McGrath was a month short of 37. It's amazing when you watch Lillee in his final series that he was only 34 - he looks about 50.
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iirc both Lillee and Marshall played multiple seasons of FC post test retirement, whilst Hadlee and McGrath’s final tests were in fact their final FC matches.
 
akilana

akilana

State Captain
The Sean said:
I suppose that's still pretty early though. Hadlee played his last Test at 39, McGrath was a month short of 37. It's amazing when you watch Lillee in his final series that he was only 34 - he looks about 50.
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I guess it's relative. Jimmy played till he was 40 and by that metric, Mcgrath retired too early.
 
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