Curtly Ambrose vs Sunil Gavaskar

[Coronis]

Why do you all do this, lol

It can be fun to watch you get passionate sometimes. We like to make sure you don’t miss potential slander of one of your boys.

 

[Johan]

Ambrose slander is crazy work ngl

 

[kyear2]

Unhelpful is a big stretch.

Mixed.

 

[subshakerz]

It can be fun to watch you get passionate sometimes. We like to make sure you don’t miss potential slander of one of your boys.

In other words, confirming your theory he has an extra soft spot for WI players.

 

[kyear2]

It can be fun to watch you get passionate sometimes. We like to make sure you don’t miss potential slander of one of your boys.

Thing is that I really admire Donald as well, and feel like he's overlooked a lot here in conversation.

Wouldn't rate him over Ambrose, their careers overlapped enough and the consensus during their playing days was somewhat almost unanimous. You're free to disagree of course.

But after that, he's pretty much on par or ahead of Imran, Lillee, Wasim, Holding and Garner etc.

 

[subshakerz]

Ambrose slander is crazy work ngl

It ain't slander.

 

[kyear2]

Ambrose slander is crazy work ngl

I imagine it's coming from the same source as always.

He does have his, ummmmm, let go with mandate.

 

[kyear2]

It all comes down to style and m.o.

Yeah, Steyn and Donald both went for it, loved to watch both in full flow.

But that doesn't diminish the skills and effectiveness of guys like McGrath and Ambrose.

There are times when control is required and pressure does often lead to wickets. Need a mix of both.

 

[subshakerz]

Lol as if we are arguing against Ambrose's style.

Kyear talks big but end of the day he would agree with my points begrudgingly. Sad he has lost the stones to debate it though.

 

[Bolo.]

what was Donald's home series not at 100%

The bulk of impact of injuries over the course of a career typically doesn't come from a poor series or two directly after injury. It's the loss of pace that the injury causes that impacts the rest of the career.

Almost all the best express/fast bowlers from the era turned into shadows of themselves when their pace dropped post injury. Waqar, Bishop, Pollock, Ambrose, and Akram (if you want to equate diabetes with injury).

Walsh avoided major injury, and stayed good (and quick) to a crazy old age. Donald avoided it until very late career, and also did a pretty good job of maintaining pace late. He did play most of his career at an age when pace is naturally dropping though

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Genuine question, did you see Ambrose at the start of his career? Like through '89 to '92?

Like Lillee post injury, they adapted the best they could to maximize their capabilities.

Pace was down, and he still was unhittable and he maintained his numbers. Don't think some realise how difficult that is to do.

I did and Ambrose was a nightmare to face. The surgery in 1994 did dent him majoryly but i shudder to think how much worse the WI would've been without him. The fact of the matter is without Ambrose's "impactful" spells WI would've lost or drawn the following series: 1992 One off vs RSA, 1993 series vs Pak, 1993 series vs Aus, 1994 series vs Eng, 1995 series in England, 1997 series vs SL The 2000 series vs Zim; WI were defending 99. To this day I still believe that had Ambrose not been injured for the 4th test in the 1997 series in Australia, WI may well have come back and won that test to set up the decider in Perth. Some people (you know who they are) just want to look at numbers and dismiss greatness with their BS. Not on my watch.

 

[kyear2]

I did and Ambrose was a nightmare to face. The surgery in 1994 did dent him majoryly but i shudder to think how much worse the WI would've been without him. The fact of the matter is without Ambrose's "impactful" spells WI would've lost or drawn the following series: 1992 One off vs RSA, 1993 series vs Pak, 1993 series vs Aus, 1994 series vs Eng, 1995 series in England, 1997 series vs SL The 2000 series vs Zim; WI were defending 99. To this day I still believe that had Ambrose not been injured for the 4th test in the 1997 series in Australia, WI may well have come back and won that test to set up the decider in Perth. Some people (you know who they are) just want to look at numbers and dismiss greatness with their BS. Not on my watch.

Well said Sir.

 

[Coronis]

The bulk of impact of injuries over the course of a career typically doesn't come from a poor series or two directly after injury. It's the loss of pace that the injury causes that impacts the rest of the career.

Almost all the best express/fast bowlers from the era turned into shadows of themselves when their pace dropped post injury. Waqar, Bishop, Pollock, Ambrose, and Akram (if you want to equate diabetes with injury).

Walsh avoided major injury, and stayed good (and quick) to a crazy old age. Donald avoided it until very late career, and also did a pretty good job of maintaining pace late. He did play most of his career at an age when pace is naturally dropping though

When did Pollock injure himself? I don’t recall tbh.

 

[Bolo.]

When did Pollock injure himself? I don’t recall tbh.

2 different injuries that each shaved off a fair bit of pace. 2002 and 2005 IIRC, but don't hold meto exact dates.

 

[subshakerz]

The surgery in 1994 did dent him majoryly

Agreed.

 

[DrWolverine]

2 different injuries that each shaved off a fair bit of pace. 2002 and 2005 IIRC, but don't hold meto exact dates.

He became significantly worse after 2002. He became the spearhead after the retirement of Donald and became the senior most player.