Is Kapil Dev an ATG test cricketer?

[kyear2]

Easily.
Among top 20 cricketers alltime..
There are like 50 ATGs.

Botham is a top tier ATG.. Kapil was better than Botham.

Like seriously, lol

 

[kyear2]

Sunny isn't in that level, change that if you really want me to vote for Gooch

So genuinely curious, what level is he is?

 

[sayon basak]

Sunny isn't in that level, change that if you really want me to vote for Gooch

Lillee=Gavaskar in primary discipline, no?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lillee=Gavaskar in primary discipline, no?

No. Gavaskar better. I have Lillee alongside Garner, Holding and Lindwall, probably even Trueman (and hopefully Bumrah post English tour). I would say I have Gavaskar on par with Wasim, Ambrose and Imran on primary. Ofcourse, there aren't any big gaps there.

Btw, I just saw Lillee and won't really have commented if it was just him. I mostly focused on Greg.

 

[DrWolverine]

Lillee=Gavaskar in primary discipline, no?

Gavaskar better and proven performer

 

[sayon basak]

Gavaskar better and proven performer

It's still close tho.

 

[Coronis]

Interesting results that seem surprising, because the minority is so vocal

 

[kyear2]

Better support, better conditions

And how did Dev perform in said conditions?

 

[kyear2]

To answer the question as to if Dev is an ATG, I don't see how one comes to a conclusion of yes.

He was at best a good bowler and below test standard test batsman.

How does than combination conclude with one being an ATG cricketer.

With regards to Botham, Botham wins out for me, based purely on how impactful his peak was.

I have 40 cricketers of whom I rate to be legitimate ATGs, neither makes it, though Botham, due to his peak is much closer..

Longevity over gets you so far, at some point you have to have that quality as well. That quality and impact where you transcend and consistently change and win games, with the numbers to match.

For me neither Anderson nor Walsh are ATGs and I would select either in any team over Kapil.

This consistent notion that nay all rounder is by default better, where they aren't comparable on primary skills is one I'll never get. That you're an ATG because you combine two disciplines is even worse.

Guys like Imran, Kallis, Sobers, Pollock, Hadlee, even Hammond are so far ahead as they have that primary skills to hang their hats on, and are much better players.

Not even to mention the two ATG wicketkeepers that has to be rated above him.

 

[kyear2]

No. Gavaskar better. I have Lillee alongside Garner, Holding and Lindwall, probably even Trueman (and hopefully Bumrah post English tour). I would say I have Gavaskar on par with Wasim, Ambrose and Imran on primary. Ofcourse, there aren't any big gaps there.

Btw, I just saw Lillee and won't really have commented if it was just him. I mostly focused on Greg.

Lille is around bottom of the top 10 as a bowler, as is Gavaskar as a bat.

Ambrose is a top 5 fast bowler, Gavaskar is not in that range as a batsman.

 

[kyear2]

And my final point for now.

When we are constructing teams or ranking keeper batsmen, Healy and even Knott are dismissed by both because their batting isn't "good enough", again proof that keepers are indeed all rounders btw.

But Knott is right there as a batsman with Dev, if not higher, probably higher.

Healy is not in the same area code as Dev when comparing primary disciples and a hair below as a batsman. Yet Healy is dismissed / invalidated because of his batting, but Dev is elevated to ATG status because of his.

There is no argument where that makes sense. @capt_Luffy in particular who has consistently said that Healy can't be considered in the argument for top keeper batsmen because of his batting, yet it's very much in line with Kapil's.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think you probably just have forgotten that keepers being not able to hold the bat is not a normal thing, as oppose to bowlers.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

l

in India
Botham 7 matches 30 @ 25.53 3 5’fers
Kapil 65 matches 219 @ 26.49 11 5’fers

in England
Botham 59 matches 226 @ 27.54 17 5’fers
Kapil 13 matches 43 @ 39.18 2 5’fers

1982 India in England
3 tests

Kapil scored 290+ runs @73 and took 10 wickets at 43 iirc

Botham 400+ runs @ 130ish avg and 9 wickets @35

And the best player of the series was Kapil.

 

[Johan]

l

1982 India in England
3 tests

Kapil scored 290+ runs @73 and took 10 wickets at 43 iirc

Botham 400+ runs @ 130ish avg and 9 wickets @35

And the best player of the series was Kapil.

talk about being biased

 

[Victor Ian]

I don't think you're an all rounder unless you're often batting before the wicket keeper or bowling in the top 4. If you don't do that, you're just handy in the other thing.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think you're an all rounder unless you're often batting before the wicket keeper or bowling in the top 4. If you don't do that, you're just handy in the other thing.

I think for batting ahead of keepers, it really depends on who the keeper is. Like for eg Sangakkara batted at 3 even while keeping. For a less severe example, Jadeja almost always bats behind Pant, but so does another batsman like Sarfraz in general, since Pant bats at 5. On the otherhand, Lindwall batted plenty ahead of Tallon. Like literal bowlers batted ahead of someone like Strudwick.

 

[Johan]

I think for batting ahead of keepers, it really depends on who the keeper is. Like for eg Sangakkara batted at 3 even while keeping. For a less severe example, Jadeja almost always bats behind Pant, but so does another batsman like Sarfraz in general, since Pant bats at 5. On the otherhand, Lindwall batted plenty ahead of Tallon. Like literal bowlers batted ahead of someone like Strudwick.

Daily reminder that Miller > Lindwall

 

[capt_Luffy]

Daily reminder that Miller > Lindwall

I mean, I agree.

 

[Johan]

And my final point for now.

When we are constructing teams or ranking keeper batsmen, Healy and even Knott are dismissed by both because their batting isn't "good enough", again proof that keepers are indeed all rounders btw.

But Knott is right there as a batsman with Dev, if not higher, probably higher.

Healy is not in the same area code as Dev when comparing primary disciples and a hair below as a batsman. Yet Healy is dismissed / invalidated because of his batting, but Dev is elevated to ATG status because of his.

There is no argument where that makes sense. @capt_Luffy in particular who has consistently said that Healy can't be considered in the argument for top keeper batsmen because of his batting, yet it's very much in line with Kapil's.

Knott is ATG

 

[kyear2]

I think you probably just have forgotten that keepers being not able to hold the bat is not a normal thing, as oppose to bowlers.

But how is Healy's 27 poor, but Kapil's 30 sufficient enough to push his underwhelming bowling performance to ATG all round status.

Also keeper is a position where the all rounder is an absolute must, like a 5th bowler.

Having a inferior bowler usurp his superior because he can bat a bit is not a requirement nor explicitly beneficial.