Kapil Dev vs Courtney Walsh

[Sliferxxxx]

I rate Kapil as an ATG Cricketer

Didn't realize your standards were so low....

 

[OverratedSanity]

Gillespie played 13 games without Mcgrath and averaged 25.57 in those

Mainly beat up sub par Bangladesh in 06 and some ZIM/WI teams in 03 in games that McGrath didn't play. In the big series like at home 04 vs India, or 05 Ashes, his performance dropped noticeably.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I castigate Kyear not much for who he rates but moreso for his hypocrisy and double standards. Look at the examples I have mentioned in this very thread.

As someone else pointed out earlier we all do it and it's only natural.

 

[Johan]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

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bowling average overall for games in Kapil games in Pakistan is 45, which is...wow

 

[sayon basak]

I don't think so honestly.

Depends on what one means by an average bowler/batter. If Kallis/Kapil are average or close to average bowler/batter, then they could be more valuable imo.

 

[reyrey]

I watched a lot of Gillespie (on TV) and he wasn't anywhere near as effective a bowler in the last few years of his career after his pace dropped.

Prior to that he was a very good and often it would look like he out bowled McGrath, but just didn't pick up as many wickets.

At his fasted he was a beast! Useful tailender too.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Prior to that he was a very good and often it would look like he out bowled McGrath, but just didn't pick up as many wickets.

It's because he was pretty much the classic "bowls a foot too short" bowler.

 

[sayon basak]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

bowling average overall for games in Kapil games in Pakistan is 45, which is...wow

Including England.

Aggregate/overall records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[subshakerz]

Bowlers like Walsh and Gillespie benefitted massively from supportive home pitches and pressure generated from the other end through worldclass support which helped their averages.

Kapil had none of those and it is obvious he would have a record approaching what those two had if he had those advantages.

Not sure why there is resistance to accepting this.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Mainly beat up sub par Bangladesh in 06 and some ZIM/WI teams in 03 in games that McGrath didn't play. In the big series like at home 04 vs India, or 05 Ashes, his performance dropped noticeably.

Excuse me but that '03 wi team he did well against had a decent batting lineup and that series was played on absolute roads. Yet Jason excelled.

 

[Johan]

Gillespie yes, Walsh No.

with all due respect to Dev, I don't think he's a comparable bowler to Walsh in any context, his argument over him is the utility he brings to the side with all three factors of his game.

 

[reyrey]

It's because he was pretty much the classic "bowls a foot too short" bowler.

I felt it was more he just did a bit too much with the ball and always beat the bat whilst McGrath did slightly less and found the edge.

 

[subshakerz]

As someone else pointed out earlier we all do it and it's only natural.

Except he acts like his views are finely articulated Laws of Nature somehow whereas they are rife with inconsistencies.

 

[subshakerz]

Gillespie yes, Walsh No

Walsh first half of career.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Including England.

Aggregate/overall records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Tbf, Botham/Willis did much better than Kapil in these games. He definitely underperformed in England.

But I do think Kapil deserves a ton of credit for his WI/Aus performances. It kinda does compensate a lot for his failures elsewhere imo. Especially compared to someone like Botham who shrank like a mouse against WI. Huge gulf between their respective performances vs the best opposition of the era, which is why I think Kapil is basically equal to Botham overall.

 

[Johan]

Didn't realize your standards were so low....

I have Walsh there too so maybe.

I also really rate All-Rounder utility, I voted Botham over Chappell for example.

 

[DrWolverine]

Bowlers like Walsh and Gillespie benefitted massively from supportive home pitches and pressure generated from the other end through worldclass support which helped their averages.

Unpopular opinion : I rate Hadlee almost on par with Maco. He had zero support, played in a weak team and had higher longevity.

 

[subshakerz]

Tbf, Botham/Willis did much better than Kapil in these games. He definitely underperformed in England.

But I do think Kapil deserves a ton of credit for his WI/Aus performances. It kinda does compensate a lot for his failures elsewhere imo. Especially compared to someone like Botham who shrank like a mouse against WI. Huge gulf between their respective performances vs the best opposition of the era, which is why I think Kapil is basically equal to Botham overall.

Think it also helps because Walsh failed in Australia as a bowler.

 

[subshakerz]

Gillespie yes, Walsh No.

with all due respect to Dev, I don't think he's a comparable bowler to Walsh in any context, his argument over him is the utility he brings to the side with all three factors of his game.

Walsh is still better but my argument is that the difference between them as bowlers is not vast enough to not allow Devs batting to factor in.

 

[Johan]

Walsh is still better but my argument is that the difference between them as bowlers is not vast enough to not allow Devs batting to factor in.

sure, Walsh has the ceiling of a 23/24 compared to Kapil being like 27 with the ball, the almost extra 25 runs of output is valuable