Kapil Dev vs Courtney Walsh

[Sliferxxxx]

Never said it is. Kyear is the one belittling here for Kapil over Walsh, over and over, again and again. Gillespie being a better player than Kapil though is worse than any of Subz's takes on any of them

Gillespie is not a better player than Dev but he's likely a better bowler.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I mean, it's only natural

True so I guess it's natural to complain. Noted....

 

[capt_Luffy]

Umm no. We agree with?? The polls say different. For example Ambrose vs Imran away. Imran lost. And most on here considers Ashwin great, you don't.

As for Dev, again I'll say this, there's no guarantee that him being in a stronger attack like 80s WI would lower his average. He very well may or he may end up like a Patrick Patterson or Kenny Benjamin who both averaged around the same as Dev even while bowling along side greatness

No offence, but are you really comparing Pattinson and Benjamin to Kapil as a bowler??

 

[capt_Luffy]

Gillespie is not a better player than Dev but he's likely a better bowler.

I will disagree to that definitely

 

[Sliferxxxx]

No offence, but are you really comparing Pattinson and Benjamin to Kapil as a bowler??

Was that your take seriously? I'm saying there's no guarantee Dev's average would improve being part of a stronger attack.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I will disagree to that definitely

Outside of longevity, I'm all ears as to why Dev is a better (not greater) bowler than Jason.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Was that your take seriously? I'm saying there's no guarantee Dev's average would improve being part of a stronger attack.

Like there's no guarantee for anything really. Bottom line is bowling in a strong attack is easier than a weak one, especially for someone who isn't uber consistent

 

[BazBall21]

Like there's no guarantee for anything really. Bottom line is bowling in a strong attack is easier than a weak one, especially for someone who isn't uber consistent

I don't think his bowling could have gone much further. There's more argument that his batting could have, but his batting was inherently volatile.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Outside of longevity, I'm all ears as to why Dev is a better (not greater) bowler than Jason.

Weaker support, longevity, performance against best teams, also think his record in England and Pakistan are decent not bad as you believe.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think his bowling could have gone much further. There's more argument that his batting could have, but his batting was inherently volatile.

I won't necessarily agree. Kapil has a few ATG performances vs WI and Australia, class great spells in every country, 2 of the 10 highest wicket hauls by years. I think he is a 26/7 averaging bowler by quality. He also was faster in his early days and slowed down much for bowling load.

 

[Johan]

Outside of longevity, I'm all ears as to why Dev is a better (not greater) bowler than Jason.

tbh I'd be certain he will, he played quite a bit of his games on roads (Pakistan, a lot of Indian wickets, 1990 England series etc) and having a good attack would help him a lot. Reckon with a decent enough attack he can get his average down to 27, don't think he has ATG ceiling but definitely better than his numbers.

 

[BazBall21]

I won't necessarily agree. Kapil has a few ATG performances vs WI and Australia, class great spells in every country, 2 of the 10 highest wicket hauls by years. I think he is a 26/7 averaging bowler by quality. He also was faster in his early days and slowed down much for bowling load.

Anyone with an average of 29 is likely to have some great performances, but also some disappointing performances. Which is what Kapil was. His top feats don't eliminate the bad ones.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Outside of longevity, I'm all ears as to why Dev is a better (not greater) bowler than Jason.

Gillespie often looked a diminished force when McGrath was out of the lineup, and didn't have to do anywhere near as much heavy lifting as Kapil did carrying an impotent bowling attack. Kapil had incredible numbers against the strongest team of his time (Gillespie did do well vs India as well, but was found very wanting in the 04 home series when Mcgrath was out).

It's close but I certainly don't think there's any big gap between them on primary discipline.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Weaker support, longevity, performance against best teams, also think his record in England and Pakistan are decent not bad as you believe.

His record in those countries isn't decent, it's horrible. And Dev performed vs Wi to his credit so I'll give him that. But Dev simply was a good bowler nothing particularly special. Hadlee bowled with weak support as well but thrived. Kapil is far below that class.

 

[OverratedSanity]

His record in those countries isn't decent, it's horrible. And Dev performed vs Wi to his credit so I'll give him that. But Dev simply was a good bowler nothing particularly special. Hadlee bowled with weak support as well but thrived. Kapil is far below that class.

He's comparing Dev to Gillespie not Hadlee. Gillespie fits the same definition of good but not special imo.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Anyone with an average of 29 is likely to have some great performances, but also some disappointing performances. Which is what Kapil was. His top feats don't eliminate the bad ones.

Ofcourse doesn't . But some of his worst also came in some of the worst roads also. Like his bad Pakistan record is just for his debut series in a series our best bowler averaged 48, others 100+

 

[Johan]

tbh I'd be certain he will, he played quite a bit of his games on roads (Pakistan, a lot of Indian wickets, 1990 England series etc) and having a good attack would help him a lot. Reckon with a decent enough attack he can get his average down to 27, don't think he has ATG ceiling but definitely better than his numbers.

for example, in his very first game, the scoreline read

503/8
462/9
264/4
43/0
Draw

Kapil, with the new ball, predictably got cleaned up, It would probably not look that bad if his new ball partner wasn't Mohinder Amarnath

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Gillespie played 13 games without Mcgrath and averaged 25.57 in those

 

[subshakerz]

Walsh over Kapil is not an unreasonable opinion and Kyear should not be getting belittled for it.

I rate Walsh ahead of Kapil as a bowler too. Kyear is getting belittled for suggesting Kapil as a cricketer can't make it in a team over Walsh.

 

[capt_Luffy]

His record in those countries isn't decent, it's horrible. And Dev performed vs Wi to his credit so I'll give him that. But Dev simply was a good bowler nothing particularly special. Hadlee bowled with weak support as well but thrived. Kapil is far below that class.

Hard disagree, especially on Pakistan. He had 2 very good series, 1 single poor innings and a bad debut series on arguably the single worst road in Pakistan. In England it's 2 good series, 1 mid and a horrible one. If you think his record is overall horrible there, I will hard disagree.