Would Botham make it to your England ATG XI?

[subshakerz]

How?

Richards | Smith | Kallis | Pollock | Nourse | de Villiers | wk of choice | Procter | Tayfield | Donald | Steyn

That team is challenging the WI and Aus.

They lack the top level batting and bowling firepower. Their attack is all pacers who tend to attack and leak, batting isn't top tier level like Aus and WI and England.

 

[Northerner]

Pollock imo, is significantly better than Broad, Snow, Larwood, Willis and Anderson.

Apart from Larwood and Tyson i have seen them all, My dad watched Larwood and told me just how good and how quick he was. Polly does not come close to him, the same with Tyson as for the others, Willis was most certainly better, ask the Aussie batsmen who they would rather not face i put Polly on a par with Broad and Anderson not better, no worse, also imo Snow, Bedser and Gough are in the equation too,

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Apart from Larwood and Tyson i have seen them all, My dad watched Larwood and told me just how good and how quick he was. Polly does not come close to him, the same with Tyson as for the others, Willis was most certainly better, ask the Aussie batsmen who they would rather not face i put Polly on a par with Broad and Anderson not better, no worse, also imo Snow, Bedser and Gough are in the equation too,

Broad, Gough and Anderson in the same category as Pollock? In what world? And Tyson simply played far too few tests. Your dad can say whatever he wants but still be wrong. Quickness has absolutely no relevance to greatness (cough cough Brett Lee). I hope you're trolling....

 

[Coronis]

Apart from Larwood and Tyson i have seen them all, My dad watched Larwood and told me just how good and how quick he was. Polly does not come close to him, the same with Tyson as for the others, Willis was most certainly better, ask the Aussie batsmen who they would rather not face i put Polly on a par with Broad and Anderson not better, no worse, also imo Snow, Bedser and Gough are in the equation too,

You do realise we’re talking about Shaun and not Peter right?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

You do realise we’re talking about Shaun and not Peter right?

He better be trolling because none of Gough, Broad, Willis etc are on the same level as Shaun Pollock.

 

[kyear2]

They lack the top level batting and bowling firepower. Their attack is all pacers who tend to attack and leak, batting isn't top tier level like Aus and WI and England.

Now I know you're trolling.

Top-level batting, are you serious?

Richards, Pollock and Kallis are legit ATG batsmen, deVillers a legit great and Nourse and Smith easily world class.

Bowling wise, I just saw lists that rated Tayfield as the 4th best spinner. Steyn is a top 4 bowler of all time and Donald is at least the equal to guys like Imran and Lillee. Procter had as much ability as anyone and brings versatility.

Easily bests England imo.

I have a list of 40 ATGs, so all pretty elite. The representatives for each team and some arguable inclusions in parentheses.

Aus.
Bradman | Smith | Chappell | Border | Gilchrist | Warne | Lillee | McGrath (Davidson)

W.I.
Headley | Richards | Lara | Sobers | Marshall | Ambrose | Holding (Greenidge | Walcott)

S.A.
Richards | Kallis | Pollock | Procter | Steyn | Donald (Smith | Tayfield)

Eng.
Hobbs | Hutton | Hammond | Knott (Trueman | Root)

Pak.
Imran | Wasim (Miandad | Waqar)

Ind.
Gavaskar | Tendulkar | Dravid | Bumrah (Ashwin)


There's a lot of quality in those first 3 teams

 

[sayon basak]

Broad, Gough and Anderson in the same category as Pollock? In what world?

Anderson is.

 

[sayon basak]

Now I know you're trolling.

Top-level batting, are you serious?

Maybe he was talking about the firepower of the top level batting, Not the batting itself.

 

[Coronis]

Now I know you're trolling.

Top-level batting, are you serious?

Richards, Pollock and Kallis are legit ATG batsmen, deVillers a legit great and Nourse and Smith easily world class.

Bowling wise, I just saw lists that rated Tayfield as the 4th best spinner. Steyn is a top 4 bowler of all time and Donald is at least the equal to guys like Imran and Lillee. Procter had as much ability as anyone and brings versatility.

Easily bests England imo.

I have a list of 40 ATGs, so all pretty elite. The representatives for each team and some arguable inclusions in parentheses.

Aus.
Bradman | Smith | Chappell | Border | Gilchrist | Warne | Lillee | McGrath (Davidson)

W.I.
Headley | Richards | Lara | Sobers | Marshall | Ambrose | Holding (Greenidge | Walcott)

S.A.
Richards | Kallis | Pollock | Procter | Steyn | Donald (Smith | Tayfield)

Eng.
Hobbs | Hutton | Hammond | Knott (Trueman | Root)

Pak.
Imran | Wasim (Miandad | Waqar)

Ind.
Gavaskar | Tendulkar | Dravid | Bumrah (Ashwin)


There's a lot of quality in those first 3 teams

Not going to bother commenting on the obvious things but having Davidson as a borderline and not Lindwall strikes me as very off.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Now I know you're trolling.

Top-level batting, are you serious?

Richards, Pollock and Kallis are legit ATG batsmen, deVillers a legit great and Nourse and Smith easily world class.

Bowling wise, I just saw lists that rated Tayfield as the 4th best spinner. Steyn is a top 4 bowler of all time and Donald is at least the equal to guys like Imran and Lillee. Procter had as much ability as anyone and brings versatility.

Easily bests England imo.

I have a list of 40 ATGs, so all pretty elite. The representatives for each team and some arguable inclusions in parentheses.

Aus.
Bradman | Smith | Chappell | Border | Gilchrist | Warne | Lillee | McGrath (Davidson)

W.I.
Headley | Richards | Lara | Sobers | Marshall | Ambrose | Holding (Greenidge | Walcott)

S.A.
Richards | Kallis | Pollock | Procter | Steyn | Donald (Smith | Tayfield)

Eng.
Hobbs | Hutton | Hammond | Knott (Trueman | Root)

Pak.
Imran | Wasim (Miandad | Waqar)

Ind.
Gavaskar | Tendulkar | Dravid | Bumrah (Ashwin)


There's a lot of quality in those first 3 teams

Mine is much stricter:

Aus:

Bradman, Chappell, Smith, Gilchrist, McGrath, Lillee, Warne, O'Reilly. On the fence: Waugh, Lindwall, Miller, Davidson, Grimmett, Ponting

Eng:

Hobbs, Hammond, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Barrington, Barnes, Trueman, Knott. On the fence: Laker, Verity, Root, Compton

WI

Headley, Sobers, Viv, Lara, Marshall, Ambrose. On the fence: Garner, Gibbs, Holding, Weekes, Walcott

RSA

Kallis, Pollock, Steyn, Pollock S Donald. On the fence: Tayfield, Faulkner, Adcock, Nourse, Rabada

NZ

Hadlee. Williamson on the fence

Pak

Wasim, Imran. On the fence: Waqar, Javed, Younis Khan

India

Sachin, Sunny. On the fence Ashwin, Bumrah, Dravid.

SL

Murali. Sanga on the fence

So I have 33 or so I consider bonafide atgs with the rest there or thereabout depending on my mood. Someone like Bumrah just needs a few more tests. I'm sure I'm forgetting a player or two fwiw.

 

[subshakerz]

Now I know you're trolling.

Top-level batting, are you serious?

Richards, Pollock and Kallis are legit ATG batsmen, deVillers a legit great and Nourse and Smith easily world class.

Bowling wise, I just saw lists that rated Tayfield as the 4th best spinner. Steyn is a top 4 bowler of all time and Donald is at least the equal to guys like Imran and Lillee. Procter had as much ability as anyone and brings versatility.

Easily bests England imo.

I have a list of 40 ATGs, so all pretty elite. The representatives for each team and some arguable inclusions in parentheses.

Aus.
Bradman | Smith | Chappell | Border | Gilchrist | Warne | Lillee | McGrath (Davidson)

W.I.
Headley | Richards | Lara | Sobers | Marshall | Ambrose | Holding (Greenidge | Walcott)

S.A.
Richards | Kallis | Pollock | Procter | Steyn | Donald (Smith | Tayfield)

Eng.
Hobbs | Hutton | Hammond | Knott (Trueman | Root)

Pak.
Imran | Wasim (Miandad | Waqar)

Ind.
Gavaskar | Tendulkar | Dravid | Bumrah (Ashwin)


There's a lot of quality in those first 3 teams

England simply have a higher quality top 5/6 than SA. 4 of them are in the top dozen bats as per CW.

SA with Steyn and Donald have more firepower but also are more capable of being collared.

 

[Northerner]

Broad, Gough and Anderson in the same category as Pollock? In what world? And Tyson simply played far too few tests. Your dad can say whatever he wants but still be wrong. Quickness has absolutely no relevance to greatness (cough cough Brett Lee). I hope you're trolling....

No i am not trolling and i live in the real world, i have seen far more cricket than you and a lot more objective than you, your biased opinion of Polly being a great and England not having a great 3rd paceman is just ridiculous, it does not matter that Tyson only played 19 tests, Graeme Pollock only played 20+ tests but was a great, and clearly you know nothing about Larwood, compare Broad and Andersons 5 wicket hauls to Pollys, not even close. i like Polly and rate him high, but your biased opinion is laughable. and clearly you have no clue. i didnt say Goughy was better than Polly either, i said he was in the equation of being a great bowler just like Snow and Bedser where, and i would pick Willis over Polly every day of the week, so yes England does have a great 3rd paceman, ask Viv Richards and Border if Willis was a great bowler, ask the Chappell brothers if Snow was a great bowler, ask Ponting and Gilchrist if Gough want a great bowler, ask Steve Smith if Anderson and Broad are great bowlers,

 

[Coronis]

No i am not trolling and i live in the real world, i have seen far more cricket than you and a lot more objective than you, your biased opinion of Polly being a great and England not having a great 3rd paceman is just ridiculous, it does not matter that Tyson only played 19 tests, Graeme Pollock only played 20+ tests but was a great, and clearly you know nothing about Larwood, compare Broad and Andersons 5 wicket hauls to Pollys, not even close. i like Polly and rate him high, but your biased opinion is laughable. and clearly you have no clue. i didnt say Goughy was better than Polly either, i said he was in the equation of being a great bowler just like Snow and Bedser where, and i would pick Willis over Polly every day of the week, so yes England does have a great 3rd paceman,

Oh @subshakerz I was so used to you not having a profile pic in my head I thought it was you who posted this earlier. I thought you’d gone off the deep end.

 

[ashley bach]

Subbs!!

That's a gorgeous straight drive you got there mate.

 

[subshakerz]

Oh @subshakerz I was so used to you not having a profile pic in my head I thought it was you who posted this earlier. I thought you’d gone off the deep end.

Lol it's not your fault even I sometimes miss my own posts now when I scroll. First time I used a profile pic ever here.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Oh @subshakerz I was so used to you not having a profile pic in my head I thought it was you who posted this earlier. I thought you’d gone off the deep end.

Brother same. I honestly thought it was Subz posting this nonsense about Broad and Gough being on the same level as S Pollock. Phew. Glad to see you're not that insane.

 

[Northerner]

Brother same. I honestly thought it was Subz posting this nonsense about Broad and Gough being on the same level as S Pollock. Phew. Glad to see you're not that insane.

Broad is the same level as Pollock, and Gough was a great bowler, i never said Gough was better than Pollock. however look at Gough strike rate, its better than Pollys, injuries shortened his career, i said he was a great strike bowler, the whole idea in over 100 years of test cricket England have not produced a 3rd great fast bowler is stark raving bonkers. so why is it nonsense. ? and why is it insane ? , i have played at a high level of cricket, and watched it for almost 60 years, dont be so arrogant,

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Broad is the same level as Pollock, and Gough was a great bowler, i never said Gough was better than Pollock. however look at Gough strike rate, its better than Pollys, injuries shortened his career, i said he was a great strike bowler, the whole idea in over 100 years of test cricket England have not produced a 3rd great fast bowler is stark raving bonkers. so why is it nonsense. ? and why is it insane ? , i have played at a high level of cricket, and watched it for almost 60 years, so dont be so bloody arrogant,

You might want to chill out. I simply said whoever Englands 3rd seamer is, they aren't on the same level as other top teams:

Australia: Lindwall, Cummins, Davidson
WI: Garner, Holding
Pak: Waqar
Rsa: Pollock

Neither of Gough or Broad are there. Anderson, Willis, Bedser and Statham are close but imo a bit below. I'm not being arrogant it's the general consensus that I've observed.

 

[Northerner]

You might want to chill out. I simply said whoever Englands 3rd seamer is, they aren't on the same level as other top teams:

Australia: Lindwall, Cummins, Davidson
WI: Garner, Holding
Pak: Waqar
Rsa: Pollock

Neither of Gough or Broad are there. Anderson, Willis, Bedser and Statham are close but imo a bit below. I'm not being arrogant it's the general consensus that I've observed.

I am completely chilled, and i disagree 100%, that Pollock was better than Willis and Ando and Broad where not the same level as Polly , and Larwood was better than all of them, you started the personal attack calling me insane, and its not a general consensus at all. just a couple of you,

 

[Coronis]

I am completely chilled, and i disagree 100%, that Pollock was better than Willis and Ando and Broad where not the same level as Polly , and Larwood was better than all of them, you started the personal attack calling me insane, and its not a general consensus at all. just a couple of you,

Oh no, its definitely a general consensus on this site. The only one of those considered marginally close to Pollock is Anderson, and that too purely because of his longevity.

Broad is the same level as Pollock, and Gough was a great bowler, i never said Gough was better than Pollock. however look at Gough strike rate, its better than Pollys, injuries shortened his career, i said he was a great strike bowler, the whole idea in over 100 years of test cricket England have not produced a 3rd great fast bowler is stark raving bonkers. so why is it nonsense. ? and why is it insane ? , i have played at a high level of cricket, and watched it for almost 60 years, dont be so arrogant,

I suppose you think Rabada is better than Steyn because of his superior strike rate too?