Barry Richards vs Greenidge

[Coronis]

Definitely The one who played more than 27 tests.

He is always amused

 

[govinda indian fan]

I do rate barry highly but since Greenidge played 108 vs Barry's 4 so voted Greenidge

 

[sayon basak]

I do rate barry highly but since Greenidge played 108 vs Barry's 4 so voted Greenidge

Barry Richards or Mushfiqur Rahim?

 

[DrWolverine]

It is ridiculous to compare Barry Richards to other cricketers since he did not play much at the level

 

[sayon basak]

 

[kyear2]

It is ridiculous to compare Barry Richards to other cricketers since he did not play much at the level

Yet somehow everyone in the 70's especially the first half of the 70's knew who the best batsman in the world was.

The arrogance that some here have exhibited on this topic, who's knowledge of the sport doesn't extent past analyzing stat sheets, is pretty impressive.
The inability to accept any other perspective other that their own and even the contemporary ratings of previous generations is a special kind of hubris.

First class cricket in the 70's and 80's wasn't what it was today and throughout history played a major part in the ratings of cricketers. It's why even today O'Reilly is unanimously seen as the 3rd greatest spinner ever.

One of if the major reasons why the WI team of the 80's were able to become the greatest team ever up to that point, was because of the extensive exposure granted by county cricket. It was where everyone was.

It was also what odi's subsequently became, the 2nd most important form of cricket, but even more crucially so, because it was also inherently red ball cricket.
So very much the same way the odi performances buffs the credentials of players like Tendulkar and Wasim in the 90's the same applied to fc cricket preceding that.

And again, it wasn't just first class performances on their own. It was whom those performances were against, it was also how they were performed, 9 hundreds before lunch, a triple in a day, it was the acclaim from Dickie Bird, Dennis Lillee, Don Bradman, Graeme Gooch, Jeff Thompson, to Procter and Pollock all proclaiming him the greatest opening batsman they've ever seen, if not batsman all together.

Far more astute judges than us judged Jim better than Greenidge, Trumper, Hayden et al then selecting him to the Cricinfo all time World Test 2nd team XI. CMJ did the same when naming him in a world XI to compete against an all time English XI. Crowe when he named him in his 2nd all time world XI, though he also called him the best post war opener.

But surely we here know far better., and this man surely can't be an all time great.

 

[Coronis]

 

[ankitj]

This was done just a month ago.

Barry Richards vs Gordon Greenidge

Who was the better batsman in general? (Not just tests)

www.cricketweb.net

 

[subshakerz]

Yet somehow everyone in the 70's especially the first half of the 70's knew who the best batsman in the world was.

The arrogance that some here have exhibited on this topic, who's knowledge of the sport doesn't extent past analyzing stat sheets, is pretty impressive.
The inability to accept any other perspective other that their own and even the contemporary ratings of previous generations is a special kind of hubris.

First class cricket in the 70's and 80's wasn't what it was today and throughout history played a major part in the ratings of cricketers. It's why even today O'Reilly is unanimously seen as the 3rd greatest spinner ever.

One of if the major reasons why the WI team of the 80's were able to become the greatest team ever up to that point, was because of the extensive exposure granted by county cricket. It was where everyone was.

It was also what odi's subsequently became, the 2nd most important form of cricket, but even more crucially so, because it was also inherently red ball cricket.
So very much the same way the odi performances buffs the credentials of players like Tendulkar and Wasim in the 90's the same applied to fc cricket preceding that.

And again, it wasn't just first class performances on their own. It was whom those performances were against, it was also how they were performed, 9 hundreds before lunch, a triple in a day, it was the acclaim from Dickie Bird, Dennis Lillee, Don Bradman, Graeme Gooch, Jeff Thompson, to Procter and Pollock all proclaiming him the greatest opening batsman they've ever seen, if not batsman all together.

Far more astute judges than us judged Jim better than Greenidge, Trumper, Hayden et al then selecting him to the Cricinfo all time World Test 2nd team XI. CMJ did the same when naming him in a world XI to compete against an all time English XI. Crowe when he named him in his 2nd all time world XI, though he also called him the best post war opener.

But surely we here know far better., and this man surely can't be an all time great.

So do you consider Van Der Bijl an ATG?

 

[subshakerz]

The inability to accept any other perspective other that their own and even the contemporary ratings of previous generations is a special kind of hubris.

That would be you.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Barry

 

[sayon basak]

It is ridiculous to compare Barry Richards to other cricketers since he did not play much at the level

Barry did decently vs Good bowlers tbf. Here're some stats:-

Barry Richards:-

In RoW vs ENG:-
8 innings; 257 runs @36.71

In WSC:-
8 innings; 554 runs @79.14

In Tests:-
7 innings; 508 runs @72.57

In Rebel tours:-
10 innings; 252 runs @28

In FC vs Lillee, Thomson, Roberts, Holding, Snow, Underwood, Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Procter & Van Der Bijl:-
6613 runs @57.50; 18 hundreds.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Barry did decently vs Good bowlers tbf. Here're some stats:-

Barry Richards:-

In RoW vs ENG:-
8 innings; 257 runs @36.71

In WSC:-
8 innings; 554 runs @79.14

In Tests:-
7 innings; 508 runs @72.57

In Rebel tours:-
10 innings; 252 runs @28

In FC vs Lillee, Thomson, Roberts, Holding, Snow, Underwood, Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Procter & Van Der Bijl:-
6613 runs @57.50; 18 hundreds.

For comparison,
Graeme Pollock:-

in Test:-
41 innings; 2256 runs @60.97

In Rebel tours:-
1083 runs @72.2

In RoW vs England:-
8 innings; 250 runs @31.25

In FC vs Lillee, Thomson, Roberts, Holding, Snow, Underwood, Bedi, Chandrasekhar, Procter & Van Der Bijl:-
3614 runs @46.33; 8 hundreds

Total:-
Barry Richards:- 8184 runs @56.44
Graeme Pollock:- 6753 runs @48.93

Btw the Total is mostly wrong as it includes all of the matches like WSC, RoW, Rebel Tours, etc., twice. Also, these are the bowlers whom Barry faced at his peak. Graeme began much earlier and played much latter. His best decade was the 60s. So for a fair comparison, you should include the top 60s bowlers vs him.

 

[Coronis]

Btw the Total is mostly wrong as it includes all of the matches like WSC, RoW, Rebel Tours, etc., twice. Also, these are the bowlers whom Barry faced at his peak. Graeme began much earlier and played much latter. His best decade was the 60s. So for a fair comparison, you should include the top 60s bowlers vs him.

Fun fact: Pollock is only 1 year older than Richards

He debuted at 16 in FC and 19 in tests. Played until 43 in FC.

Richards debuted at 19 in FC and 24 in tests. Played until 33 in FC then retired then came back for 36 and 37.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

How can a guy who played only 4 tests ever be voted a "better test opener" than someone who played 108 tests with 19 test centuries?

That means no one deserves a vote here.
How do we know Greenidge is better.. When Barry played just 4 tests?

 

[sayon basak]

That means no one deserves a vote here.
How do we know Greenidge is better.. When Barry played just 4 tests?

Wut?

 

[Bolo.]

Pollock averaged 72 in tests from 1965 till 1970. Barry did it in 1970 only.

I know Barry is ridiculously highly rated by a bunch of people, but was he really leapfrogging Pollock in general perception that quickly? You would assume a more protracted period of performances would engender some lasting respect. IDK though, maybe people thought his eye injury was the end of him.

Similarly, Sobers, who only retired in 74. Maybe somewhat written off due to age. But was still performing very well till almost the very end, and outperformed Barry in the ROW games by a big margin.

And then Viv going nuts in 76.

When was the window that Barry was clearly the best bat in the world, either in terms of actual performances or perception?

 

[Coronis]

Pollock averaged 72 in tests from 1965 till 1970. Barry did it in 1970 only.

I know Barry is ridiculously highly rated by a bunch of people, but was he really leapfrogging Pollock in general perception that quickly? You would assume a more protracted period of performances would engender some lasting respect. IDK though, maybe people thought his eye injury was the end of him.

Similarly, Sobers, who only retired in 74. Maybe somewhat written off due to age. But was still performing very well till almost the very end, and outperformed Barry in the ROW games by a big margin.

And then Viv going nuts in 76.

When was the window that Barry was clearly the best bat in the world, either in terms of actual performances or perception?

Yeah questions I ask too..

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pollock averaged 72 in tests from 1965 till 1970. Barry did it in 1970 only.

I know Barry is ridiculously highly rated by a bunch of people, but was he really leapfrogging Pollock in general perception that quickly? You would assume a more protracted period of performances would engender some lasting respect. IDK though, maybe people thought his eye injury was the end of him.

Similarly, Sobers, who only retired in 74. Maybe somewhat written off due to age. But was still performing very well till almost the very end, and outperformed Barry in the ROW games by a big margin.

And then Viv going nuts in 76.

When was the window that Barry was clearly the best bat in the world, either in terms of actual performances or perception?

Chappell also was going extremely strong from 72 and Gavaskar had a bonkers WI tour in 71 as well

 

[peterhrt]

When was the window that Barry was clearly the best bat in the world, either in terms of actual performances or perception?

Of course there is no definitive answer to this and there was variation by country. But perception in England seemed clear at the time.

Sobers' decline began after his first full season of county cricket in 1968. The increased workload led to staleness, and fallout from his Trinidad declaration earlier that year dampened his enthusiasm for Test cricket. There were still outstanding innings to come of course. His main rival was Graeme Pollock. The 1968-69 England tour to South Africa was cancelled but Pollock was in great form domestically and perceived by many as the world's best batsman. The odd comment came out of Australia that a reluctance to hook was a weakness and that Ian Chappell was a better player. Chappell was subsequently targeted by the South Africans and suffered a lean series in 1970.

During the second Test of that series in Durban, Barry Richards would have scored the only hundred before lunch against Australia but for timewasting by skipper Lawry. Chappell recalls a conversation in the slips along the lines that they were now watching the world's best batsman. Unfortunately for the Australians, Pollock overheard, took a fresh guard, and stayed until he had made 274. In the last Test Richards scored 81 and 126 with the same nonchalant ease. A year later he was offered a dollar a run by South Australia and averaged over a hundred, with 325 in a day against a young Lillee, McKenzie and Tony Lock, three weeks after making an effortless 224 against the English tourists who were in doubt that he was the best.

That remained the view in England until 1975. An English Test tour to South Africa was scheduled for 1975-76 and Lord's declined to arrange other trips, hoping it might still go ahead. During the first half of the 1970s it was still thought that Richards might play international cricket again. Discussion centred around the identity of the second best batsman, with Boycott in the frame at first, followed briefly by Lawrence Rowe then Greg Chappell.

Pollock had remained in South Africa where he was still regarded as number one. In the Caribbean there was admiration for Gavaskar, but not at the expense of their own Rowe, Kallicharran and Lloyd. The last two comfortably outperformed Gavaskar in India, and Majid and Zaheer in Pakistan, in 1974-75, then shone at the first World Cup. The following year Barry Richards' crown passed to namesake Viv.