Better combo

[kyear2]

What did he average as a bat then?

At Imran's absolute peak as a bat, what was he doing as a bowler?

It goes both ways.

 

[Randomfan]

It's close one in my opinion. But here is my thinking, I slightly put IK ahead of Kallis as an all rounder. So that's easy when thinking about this combo. Yes, there are good arguments for Kallis as well but I don't think I will put Kallis over IK despite being close.

Now, I don't really know how to compare a batsman(SRT) with a bowler(Steyn). But if fans make the ranking of batsmen and ranking of bowlers, I think most lists will have SRT slightly higher rank than Steyn. It will be slightly higher on average and not too much higher. I don't think it's a pefect way to think, but I don't really know how else you can even compare a batsman with a bowler.

Taken togther, I will take SRT and IK combination. Gap is not that big because Kallis is just behind IK as an all rounder for me and Steyn will comfortably feature among the top 10 bowlers and arguably among the top 5 pacers for me. I suspect it will be the same for most fans.

It's pretty good combos against each other. My answer is also just for fun, because despite writing all this, I don't think I can really compare a batsman with a bowler with a good logic. Comparing two different skills is hard and job is harder when we are talkign about tier 1 players.

 

[kyear2]

Different variations of threads to upgrade Kallis at the expense of Imran, clearly.

I'm happy this vote backfired for you.

There is something I don't understand though, but not sure if it's because of how lowly some rate Kallis's batting, which is admittedly the lowest rated primary skills of the 4.


Believe you me, this has nothing to do with your precious Immy.

Did expect the SA duo to lose, not at this clip though. On to part two.

 

[kyear2]

It's close one in my opinion. But here is my thinking, I slightly put IK ahead of Kallis as an all rounder. So that's easy when thinking about this combo. Yes, there are good arguments for Kallis as well but I don't think I will put Kallis over IK despite being close.

Now, I don't really know how to compare a batsman(SRT) with a bowler(Steyn). But if fans make the ranking of batsmen and ranking of bowlers, I think most lists will have SRT slightly higher rank than Steyn. It will be slightly higher on average and not too much higher. I don't think it's a pefect way to think, but I don't really know how else you can even compare a batsman with a bowler.

Taken togther, I will take SRT and IK combination. Gap is not that big because Kallis is just behind IK as an all rounder for me and Steyn will comfortably feature among the top 10 bowlers and arguably among the top 5 pacers for me. I suspect it will be the same for most fans.

It's pretty good combos against each other. My answer is also just for fun, because despite writing all this, I don't think I can really compare a batsman with a bowler with a good logic. Comparing two different skills is hard and job is harder when we are talkign about tier 1 players.

Taking the names away, I would rather have a 3 dimensional batsman and a great bowler than a one dimensional batsman and a bowling all rounder.

The key is to get players around the same quality.

 

[subshakerz]

At Imran's absolute peak as a bat, what was he doing as a bowler?

It goes both ways.

Yeah the problem is your side likes to ignore that Imran was ever that good as a bat while embracing Kallis at his peak as a bowler. Again, hypocrisy.

 

[Randomfan]

Taking the names away, I would rather have a 3 dimensional batsman and a great bowler than a one dimensional batsman and a bowling all rounder.

The key is to get players around the same quality.

Not sure if I get your comments in context of this combos.

3 dimensional batsman and a great bowler - Are you refering to Kallis and Steyn?

I would think SRT was more of a 3 dimensional batsman than Kallis.


Care to elaborate if you meant something different.

 

[subshakerz]

Did expect the SA duo to lose, not at this clip though. On to part two.

That's great to hear. This time though please don't accuse posters of SC bias like you did last time you had the Sobers/Sachin thread for your agenda.

 

[kyear2]

Not sure if I get your comments in context of this combos.

3 dimensional batsman and a great bowler - Are you refering to Kallis and Steyn?

I would think SRT was more of a 3 dimensional batsman than Kallis.


Care to elaborate if you meant something different.

An ATG batsman than contributes as a 5th bowler and ATG slip, with an ATG bowler.

Vs

An ATG batsman vs an ATG bowler who is a strong no. 8 with the bat.

 

[subshakerz]

Oh Jesus.

You are ****ing insane.



I have Imran top 10 all time, Kallis closer to 15, I don't think Kallis is better.

Imran has the jump on primary, so harder to ever catch up.

As I said in another thread, Kallis is more valuable for a team, but that's over practically everyone.

You've done countless threads at this point trying to rework the same comparison to somehow downplay bowlings ARs specifically Imran. It hasnt worked so you need to move on.

 

[Randomfan]

An ATG batsman than contributes as a 5th bowler and ATG slip, with an ATG bowler.

Vs

An ATG batsman vs an ATG bowler who is a strong no. 8 with the bat.

Oh, you are thinking of catching. Most fans think primary and some time secondary skills. Catching being an after thought.

Yes, Kallis was a very good catcher and helped Steyn a lot by rarely dropping. Steyn will also take most wickets by catching outside edge.

it certainly adds as a positve for Steyn and Kallis combos.

It was hard for me to compare batsman vs bowler and now with filding also being in play, it becomes harder.

 

[kyear2]

You've done countless threads at this point trying to rework the same comparison to somehow downplay bowlings ARs specifically Imran. It hasnt worked so you need to move on.

You mean because that's how your mind works, like when you just revived a Lara thread for no reason?

And I genuinely don't know where you get the audacity to tell me to do anything, like genuinely.

And I'm not trying to down play anything, that's you and Kallis.

As I said above, which is preferable the batsman who can do everything and a pure bowler or a ours batsman and a bowling all rounder.

You make it about personalities, I'm trying to figure out traits and preferred skills.

The problem is that everyone makes it about personalities and plays favorites.

Only player I'm arguing for tonight is Barry A Richards

 

[kyear2]

Oh, you are thinking of catching. Most fans think primary and some time secondary skills. Catching being an after thought.

Yes, Kallis was a very good catcher and helped Steyn a lot by rarely dropping. Steyn will also take most wickets by catching outside edge.

it certainly adds as a positve for Steyn and Kallis combos.

It was hard for me to compare batsman vs bowler and now with filding also being in play, it becomes harder.

Exactly, re your first point. Steyn takes most of his wickets in the cordon, and Kallis would be a huge part of that, taking the regulation and even the half chances.


And for the last paragraph, that's the point.

It's not an open and shut case as some here are making it.

 

[subshakerz]

You mean because that's how your mind works, like when you just revived a Lara thread for no reason?

Revived the thread cas we were currently talking about where Hutton should be placed.

And I'm not trying to down play anything, that's you and Kallis.

As I said above, which is preferable the batsman who can do everything and a pure bowler or a ours batsman and a bowling all rounder.

You make it about personalities, I'm trying to figure out traits and preferred skills.

This is laughable. You have beaten this thing to death at this point and it's clear because you have some issue with how certain players are ranked.

Which is fine, but you don't need to hide it behind lame anodyne excuses of 'im just exploring skills'.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not an open and shut case as some here are making it.

It is if we add Imran's captaincy, which at the very least offers even more value in a median team (affects 10 to 15 percent of results according to you, far more than slip fielding).

 

[capt_Luffy]

Tendulkar is ahead of Kallis as a batsman, but Kallis adds his relief bowler duties and is an elite slip fielder, one of the greatest ever.

Steyn is also ahead of Imran as a bowler, and Imran brings his lower order batting.

As a total package Kallis more valuable than Tendulkar to any team ever, not to mention would be a critical part of Steyn's success in the cordon. Likewise many teams would go with Imran's overall package over Steyn.

I was initially going to go with Tendulkar and Imran vs Sobers and Marshall, but that has the potential to be a powder keg and wanted to see how this one would turn out.

But to ask what the argument would even be for the former, is a little off. Kallis has more advantages over Tendulkar than Imran has over Steyn.

Eh.... As I said I will consider before taking Kallis in a team over Sachin hard. Probs would, might not as well. Don't think Imran and Steyn makes it much of a competition anymore. I am not buying their case here

 

[akilana]

kallis > imran
steyn > sachin

easy choice to go with kallis and steyn. it's a no comparison if imran had no access to bottle top

 

[Victor Ian]

How about if it is like kids cricket. Just 2 on a team plus a dog. Automatic wicket keeper.

Tendulkar gets whacked for far more when bowling than he and Imran score off Kallis and is exposed in the field leaving Imran tired from chasing everything his side of the dog down.

In this scenario, I'm going for Kallis and Steyn.

 

[Bolo.]

kallis > imran
steyn > sachin

easy choice to go with kallis and steyn. it's a no comparison if imran had no access to bottle top

Why is Steyn > Sachin for this hypothetical?

Sachin has gotten the longevity and an advantage due to the fact that it's less damaging to play a bat without a real secondary than a bowler.

If the rationale is that bowlers are more valuable than bats, that would make Imran > Kallis.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Imran and Steyn are very close as bowlers with an edge to Steyn.

Kallis and Tendulkar are not.

Imran's batting > Kallis bowling.

Tendulkar and Kallis are close... but the fact is it is more evident that Tendulkar is better