Steve Smith vs Sachin Tendulkar (after 205 innings)

[subshakerz]

Kallis is got to be far and away the most overrated cricketer in general public in recent times. He was great cricketer but these statements are probably why I sometimes like people here downgrading Kallis.

Yup. Needs to be taken down notches.

 

[kyear2]

Yup. Needs to be taken down notches.

Who did what he did better?

Sobers and depending on perspective, Hammond. That's it.

How is he over rated.

He's not as aggressive a scorer as Lara and Ponting, but he's already accordingly rated lower.
He didn't bowl as much as Sobers, and again already rated lower accordingly. Even though I maintain he was handled much better than Sobers was.
He didn't have the range of a Sobers or Waugh,.or even Smith, but was as safe as any slip ever and is a lock for the top 10.

He's as valuable as any cricketer who's ever lived.

As far as all round, multi dimensional cricketers go, only Sobers supercedes and Hammond and possibly Imran and Hadlee comes close.

 

[sayon basak]

How is he over rated.

PAG referred to the general public for a reason. Saying that he's the greatest or the second greatest cricketer ever is definitely overrating him.

And as Thala said, general public normally do not look past the volume, and 13.3K runs and 292 wickets is a pretty big volume.

 

[kyear2]

PAG referred to the general public for a reason. Saying that he's the greatest or the second greatest cricketer ever is definitely overrating him.

And as Thala said, general public normally do not look past the volume, and 13.3K runs and 292 wickets is a pretty big volume.

I was specifically referring to Subz and his ongoing war he's waging against him.

 

[sayon basak]

I was specifically referring to Subz and his ongoing war he's waging against him.

Fair I guess.......

 

[subshakerz]

How is he over rated.

He is overrated in his era by some pundits as the 'greatest cricketer ever' since there wasn't an AR near his level to compare so he stands out and they look at his raw numbers.

He is overrated as a bat on CW that considers him an ATG, yet he lacked the ability to dominate attacks which is an important criteria to be an ATG bat (it's not just about aggressive scoring, also daddy tons where he was also lacking).

He is overrated as a bowler based on bowling load he took, minnow bashing and being that useful only on helpful pitches.

Your problem is you will never subject Kallis to the level of scrutiny you do for Imran for your own reasons. Have you ever gone into scorecards of Kallis innings or who he has gotten out, average/WPM, have you ever gone into county breakdown of his bowling, etc. You didn't even mention minnows until it was brought up.

Your analysis of Kallis is entirely superficial and general, probably because you want it to be.

Thankfully based on the latest poll, Kallis is being slightly downgraded here on CW which is overdue.

 

[kyear2]

He is overrated in his era by some pundits as the 'greatest cricketer ever' since there wasn't an AR near his level to compare so he stands out and they look at his raw numbers.

He is overrated as a bat on CW that considers him an ATG, yet he lacked the ability to dominate attacks which is an important criteria to be an ATG bat (it's not just about aggressive scoring, also daddy tons where he was also lacking).

He is overrated as a bowler based on bowling load he took, minnow bashing and being that useful only on helpful pitches.

Your problem is you will never subject Kallis to the level of scrutiny you do for Imran for your own reasons. Have you ever gone into scorecards of Kallis innings or who he has gotten out, average/WPM, have you ever gone into county breakdown of his bowling, etc. You didn't even mention minnows until it was brought up.

Your analysis of Kallis is entirely superficial and general, probably because you want it to be.

Thankfully based on the latest poll, Kallis is being slightly downgraded here on CW which is overdue.

We're not taking about the same idiots that think Anderson is the greatest ever, were talking primarily about on the forum and by knowledgeable pundits.

There can be no argument that he's an ATG bat, and any such argument is tinged with bias. He had the toughest home conditions in an era of pancakes and still kept pace with all the greats of his era, including Sachin. Yes, his reluctance to accelerate as demonstrated by some of the others keep him below the upper levels of the pantheon, but he's still an ATG. And let's not pretend that Sachin's overall scoring rate was that much higher than his, and neither was close to Ponting's or Lara's.

Everything you say about his batting I can make a comparable argument about Imran's bowling. Neither were their primary strengths and neither quite live up to the stats. One had minnows and the other not outs, downhill skiing and padding.

I rate Kallis for what he is, a test quality 4th bowler, who was better suited for the 5th slot. The same way I rate Imran for what he was, a test quality no. 7 who was best suited and provided the best advantage at no. 8. Neither of them rock my world.

How is it superficial. He's a top 15 ATG test no. 4, the 2nd best 5th bowler ever and a top 10 slip fielder. Same way Imran is a top 10 bowler and the best lower order batsman to play the game.

And yes, you will harp on a one place drop to 4th until the next poll, which you'll likely ignore. As you do all of the other polls that you disagree with.

As a player and looking at on the ground, all round value to a cricket team, the only player in history that beats him is Sobers.

 

[DrWolverine]

As a player and looking at on the ground, all round value to a cricket team, the only player in history that beats him is Sobers.

True.

 

[sayon basak]

We're not taking about the same idiots that think Anderson is the greatest ever, were talking primarily about on the forum and by knowledgeable pundits.

There can be no argument that he's an ATG bat, and any such argument is tinged with bias. He had the toughest home conditions in an era of pancakes and still kept pace with all the greats of his era, including Sachin. Yes, his reluctance to accelerate as demonstrated by some of the others keep him below the upper levels of the pantheon, but he's still an ATG. And let's not pretend that Sachin's overall scoring rate was that much higher than his, and neither was close to Ponting's or Lara's.

Everything you say about his batting I can make a comparable argument about Imran's bowling. Neither were their primary strengths and neither quite live up to the stats. One had minnows and the other not outs, downhill skiing and padding.

I rate Kallis for what he is, a test quality 4th bowler, who was better suited for the 5th slot. The same way I rate Imran for what he was, a test quality no. 7 who was best suited and provided the best advantage at no. 8. Neither of them rock my world.

How is it superficial. He's a top 15 ATG test no. 4, the 2nd best 5th bowler ever and a top 10 slip fielder. Same way Imran is a top 10 bowler and the best lower order batsman to play the game.

And yes, you will harp on a one place drop to 4th until the next poll, which you'll likely ignore. As you do all of the other polls that you disagree with.

As a player and looking at on the ground, all round value to a cricket team, the only player in history that beats him is Sobers.

Talking about the forum, Kallis was rated higher than Sachin as a cricketer in the Sachin vs Kallis poll and was rated 14th in the greatest cricketer's list. Though the later is fair, don't think even you rate him that high.

 

[DrWolverine]

Talking about the forum, Kallis was rated higher than Sachin as a cricketer in the Sachin vs Kallis poll

The difference between top 10 batsmen in the last 80 years is not really that high and considering Kallis’ raw numbers as a bowler it isn’t surprising.

 

[kyear2]

Talking about the forum, Kallis was rated higher than Sachin as a cricketer in the Sachin vs Kallis poll and was rated 14th in the greatest cricketer's list. Though the later is fair, don't think even you rate him that high.

Not far from.

But to the persons here who rate players by accumulative value, he shouldn't escape the top 5. And Hammond shouldn't be far behind.

 

[sayon basak]

The difference between top 10 batsmen in the last 80 years is not really that high and considering Kallis’ raw numbers as a bowler it isn’t surprising.

Okay....but aren't you guys saying that he's underrated in CW?

 

[kyear2]

The difference between top 10 batsmen in the last 80 years is not really that high and considering Kallis’ raw numbers as a bowler it isn’t surprising.

I am sure he's rated higher as a bowler than Imran and Hadlee are as batsmen.

And while he's well below Hadlee in primary, as my 14th rates batsman, he isn't that far away from my 8th rated bowler.

And his catching, which pushes him above the bowling all rounders in total value.

Even Ponting referenced his catching in his comments, which were subsequently cut off when posted here.

 

[subshakerz]

I am sure he's rated higher as a bowler than Imran and Hadlee are as batsmen.

And while he's well below Hadlee in primary, as my 14th rates batsman, he isn't that far away from my 8th rated bowler.

And his catching, which pushes him above the bowling all rounders in total value.

All of this is wrong.

We're not taking about the same idiots that think Anderson is the greatest ever, were talking primarily about on the forum and by knowledgeable pundits.



There can be no argument that he's an ATG bat, and any such argument is tinged with bias. He had the toughest home conditions in an era of pancakes and still kept pace with all the greats of his era, including Sachin. Yes, his reluctance to accelerate as demonstrated by some of the others keep him below the upper levels of the pantheon, but he's still an ATG. And let's not pretend that Sachin's overall scoring rate was that much higher than his, and neither was close to Ponting's or Lara's.



Everything you say about his batting I can make a comparable argument about Imran's bowling. Neither were their primary strengths and neither quite live up to the stats. One had minnows and the other not outs, downhill skiing and padding.



I rate Kallis for what he is, a test quality 4th bowler, who was better suited for the 5th slot. The same way I rate Imran for what he was, a test quality no. 7 who was best suited and provided the best advantage at no. 8. Neither of them rock my world.



How is it superficial. He's a top 15 ATG test no. 4, the 2nd best 5th bowler ever and a top 10 slip fielder. Same way Imran is a top 10 bowler and the best lower order batsman to play the game.



And yes, you will harp on a one place drop to 4th until the next poll, which you'll likely ignore. As you do all of the other polls that you disagree with.



As a player and looking at on the ground, all round value to a cricket team, the only player in history that beats him is Sobers.

I would rather not get into this debate as it is not the thread topic.

 

[kyear2]

All of this is wrong.



I would rather not get into this debate as it is not the thread topic.

I gave you an entire thread where you can argue it.

 

[akilana]

He is overrated in his era by some pundits as the 'greatest cricketer ever' since there wasn't an AR near his level to compare so he stands out and they look at his raw numbers.

He is overrated as a bat on CW that considers him an ATG, yet he lacked the ability to dominate attacks which is an important criteria to be an ATG bat (it's not just about aggressive scoring, also daddy tons where he was also lacking).

He is overrated as a bowler based on bowling load he took, minnow bashing and being that useful only on helpful pitches.

Your problem is you will never subject Kallis to the level of scrutiny you do for Imran for your own reasons. Have you ever gone into scorecards of Kallis innings or who he has gotten out, average/WPM, have you ever gone into county breakdown of his bowling, etc. You didn't even mention minnows until it was brought up.

Your analysis of Kallis is entirely superficial and general, probably because you want it to be.

Thankfully based on the latest poll, Kallis is being slightly downgraded here on CW which is overdue.

most of these complaints apply to sachin too. he didn't hit daddy hundreds.. never dominated a series where he showed he was cut above the rest. He's never reached the peak of ponting. he failed against most of the great bowlers he faced in the 90s while cashing in on the average attacks. He's over rated that his stans' go to defence is longevity. sachin batted half of the time on flat decks still lacked daddy hundreds and his SR is not all that impressive considering the flat decks he's used to batting. he also of

if you subject sachin to all these scrutiny, you'd realize sachin is india's kallis.

 

[akilana]

Talking about the forum, Kallis was rated higher than Sachin as a cricketer in the Sachin vs Kallis poll and was rated 14th in the greatest cricketer's list. Though the later is fair, don't think even you rate him that high.

both are equal as batsmen.. kallis's bowling and fielding puts him above sachin.

 

[akilana]

i'd rather listen to some pundits like ponting than subs.

 

[subshakerz]

most of these complaints apply to sachin too. he didn't hit daddy hundreds.. never dominated a series where he showed he was cut above the rest. He's never reached the peak of ponting. he failed against most of the great bowlers he faced in the 90s while cashing in on the average attacks. He's over rated that his stans' go to defence is longevity. sachin batted half of the time on flat decks still lacked daddy hundreds and his SR is not all that impressive considering the flat decks he's used to batting. he also of

if you subject sachin to all these scrutiny, you'd realize sachin is india's kallis.

More daddy's than Kallis. More aggressive than him too. His peak 96 to 2002 was better than Pontings.

i'd rather listen to some pundits like ponting than subs.

Why always so bitter?

 

[akilana]

More daddy's than Kallis. More aggressive than him too. His peak 96 to 2002 was better than Pontings.


Why always so bitter?

None of them are memorable and only 2 of them resulted in wins.