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Peak Bumrah vs Peak Imran

Who is the better test bowler at their peak?

  • Total voters
    21
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Yeah in 86 against India he was MOS for batting. 82/83 against India for bowling mainly.
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That was at home though. Purely statistically if we assume ball wasn't tampered with (which almost certainly was), it may well be the Greatest (at worst top 5) series by a bowler.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
Randomfan said:
It's not flawed. It simply shows the caliber of pacers when playing away. I had done for 25+ away tests to elimiate noise. I also did for home and away combined as well with 40+ tests.

You can also do only for home, but I had very little interest in finding out who are the biggest HTBs in history. Yes, you are correct. Bumrah won't feature in 20 home tests right now due to not playing. If he doesn't play 20 tests at home then he will never feature in a lsit with 20 tests cut off and it will be fine to say that Bumrah did not belong in the list of biggest HTBs in history with 20 tests cut off. Nothing wrong about that conclusion.

Away stretches came up in this thread after some one said IK had the best peak in 100 years of history. We all know bottle caps and home umpiring being a factor so making it a non-factor means looking at away stretches and comparing with others. Sorry, for me, 10 tests away for anyone is not going to make a cut. I did not even bother to look for IK's best stretch because it looked waste of time when I was compiling 25+ best stretches with sub 20 avg. 10 tests are not even in ball park of 25+ tests cut off.

Statistically, IK's peak is on top and it did made it to top in my 40+ tests home and away stretches. But quality wise, he won't figure in the top 5 peak. Marshall, Bumrah, McGrath, Hadlee etc had higher quality peaks. You can say that it's not IK's fault for playing only 10 tests away but we have to go by what players have actually done. Many othes have played 30, 40 or even 50 good away tests in one stretch. I did not list longest stretch for eveyone. I only tried to optimize best avg in 25+ tests.
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okay, the gist of the thread is to compare the peak performance of both fast bowlers.

That’s why I highlighted what was the peak phase for Imran Khan. Between 1980-86, he was a different beast to what he was on either side of his career. Probably one away series in Windies where he was player of series was in 1988 but I was referring to his peak phase.

My point is with respect to his performance both home and away. He was excellent at home but also away from home throughout the 80s. So, it is not really a case of home bullying. Home bullying would mean someone extremely dominant at home and abysmal away. But Imran produced some memorable performances away from home, Windies in 1988 being one of them.

I think someone just posted above the period between 1980-1988 when he was a beast away from home over a sample of 20 tests. Yes, there are better away performers over the entire history but what you are arguing is best peak performance away from home to judge the quality of peak.

In case of Imran, does he have the quality with an avg of 20 over 20 away tests between 1980-1988? Yes. So, when we look at overall peak period which would include both home and away, he definitely is right up there with the very best peak of fast bowling.

Now, the debate that his phenomenal numbers in home conditions is due to bottle caps and home umpiring is a different one altogether and people over here can comprehend it in whatever way they feel is correct.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
That was at home though. Purely statistically if we assume ball wasn't tampered with (which almost certainly was), it may well be the Greatest (at worst top 5) series by a bowler.
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Again, I am not sure why just Imran is penalised for ball tampering if the entire era was guilty of it. Even if you want to make the case for him being more penalised, logically we should still cut points for Lillee, Marshall and Hadlee.

Pretending Imran was the one who invented ball tampering when every ATG of the era at the very least was applying some substance or lifting the seam regularly seems like double standards.
 
capt_Luffy

capt_Luffy

International Coach
subshakerz said:
Again, I am not sure why just Imran is penalised for ball tampering if the entire era was guilty of it. Even if you want to make the case for him being more penalised, logically we should still cut points for Lillee, Marshall and Hadlee.

Pretending Imran was the one who invented ball tampering when every ATG of the era at the very least was applying some substance or lifting the seam regularly seems like double standards.
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He kinda did more than others given all the hints. And I don't penalize him too much but that 40 wicket series was a bit too blunt of a case with the team taking the ball to dressing room.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
capt_Luffy said:
He kinda did more than others given all the hints. And I don't penalize him too much but that 40 wicket series was a bit too blunt of a case with the team taking the ball to dressing room.
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Ok as long as we acknowledge that all bowlers were ball tamperers then rather than pretending it was one bowler.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
capt_Luffy said:
He kinda did more than others given all the hints. And I don't penalize him too much but that 40 wicket series was a bit too blunt of a case with the team taking the ball to dressing room.
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His batting in that series was pretty good too. It was a flat pitch only, just Imran got to weave magic with ball like none. It is arguably the greatest individual performances with both bat and ball combined. It just seemed like he alone was enough for 11 Indian players in that home series.
 
R

Randomfan

U19 12th Man
Coronis said:
Pretty sure Smith had a better peak than Sanga. Even in terms of just raw numbers.
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I was pointing out difference between statistically being better versus actually being better. I was using Sanga's career average versus others to make a point that both are not the same thing.
 
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