Virat Kohli vs kane Williamson

[capt_Luffy]

Idk a guy averaging 59 while batting at #4 being “much much better” than a guy averaging 62 while batting at #3 doesn’t seem right

So I take you also rate Barrington over Viv now???

 

[honestbharani]

I mean I agree on the whole but I think you're really just wrong on the bolded part. During Kohli's 2014-2019 peak we had a buttload of complete roads in home series. And Kohli did a masterful job piling up runs on dead pitches but usually failed on the more spin friendly decks so I cant really give him too much credit for his supposedly extremely tough home pitches. There was the odd series (like the 2015 one vs SA) that had real rank turners but otherwise it really wasn't the case until way later (after Kohli's peak ended).

Nah hard disagree. His 200 in Mumbai was on a real sharp turner. England had spinners who sucked balls though.

 

[Thala_0710]

Idk a guy averaging 59 while batting at #4 being “much much better” than a guy averaging 62 while batting at #3 doesn’t seem right

If one doesn't just go by the raw avg, and sees where and against whom these numbers came about, then it will seem right

 

[thierry henry]

Idk a guy averaging 59 while batting at #4 being “much much better” than a guy averaging 62 while batting at #3 doesn’t seem right

You’d think this would be pretty obvious. I don’t think I quite appreciated the deranged level of mental gymnastics I was wading into here.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Like comeon, Virat averages more in Australia, in England, in SL, in the other's home, Laughably so in SA. Were both played, Williamson does so only in the WI and Bang, while pulling massive runs in Pakistan.
Don't get me wrong, Williamson is probs ahead, he is a monster at home averaging 11 runs more. But the Kiwi bros saying it's not close and he was better between 2014-19 is just hysterical to me.

 

[thierry henry]

How are they equal exactly? I'm not getting it. Against almost all top teams Kohli has a clearly superior record (home+away) including AUS, ENG, SL, NZ (IND for KW). Williamson is a bit better against SA and much better against WI. I'm not really getting why is this close

Why are you doing the analysis this way though?

Just as one example, Kohli played 10 away tests v England while KW played 2 against SL. Yet your analysis just goes ‘KW was worse against SL and Kohli was worse against England’ as if they are somehow equivalent. You could instead say ‘Kohli was worse in England, and that’s 5x more significant than Kane failing in SL because of the vastly greater sample size’. It’s a totally bogus analysis.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't think Williamson was as good as Kohli in 2014-2019 but Kohli being "much, much better" is clearly just wrong. Fun to see that post triggering the libs though so I enjoyed it.

 

[Thala_0710]

Why are you doing the analysis this way though?

Just as one example, Kohli played 10 away tests v England while KW played 2 against SL. Yet your analysis just goes ‘KW was worse against SL and Kohli was worse against England’ as if they are somehow equivalent. You could instead say ‘Kohli was worse in England, and that’s 5x more significant than Kane failing in SL because of the vastly greater sample size’. It’s a totally bogus analysis.

Yeah but Kohli being great in and against AUS, SA, SL is also off a much larger sample size. So, that is also 5x more significant which actually shifts the argument over to Kohli even more lmao

 

[OverratedSanity]

Why are you doing the analysis this way though?

Just as one example, Kohli played 10 away tests v England while KW played 2 against SL. Yet your analysis just goes ‘KW was worse against SL and Kohli was worse against England’ as if they are somehow equivalent. You could instead say ‘Kohli was worse in England, and that’s 5x more significant than Kane failing in SL because of the vastly greater sample size’. It’s a totally bogus analysis.

It's pretty bogus but Kohli also just had to go on tough tours way more often. Can't on the one hand say Williamson hasn't had enough chances to tour due to wonky scheduling and then also not take into account how much more difficult it is to maintain good numbers while touring a lot.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't think Williamson was as good as Kohli in 2014-2019 but Kohli being "much, much better" is clearly just wrong. Fun to see that post triggering the libs though so I enjoyed it.

It's semantics at this point. Point is, Virat just scored much more high quality runs away for me to think Williamson was not particularly close over that period.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

We need a moratorium on comparison threads with Kane Williamson in as they degenerate so quickly into some of the most egregiously flawed analyses ever committed to the internet. As someone who works with data everyday, the old adage that data without context isn’t information applies heavily to the superficiality of some of this analysis.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Like comeon, Virat averages more in Australia, in England, in SL, in the other's home, Laughably so in SA. Were both played, Williamson does so only in the WI and Bang, while pulling massive runs in Pakistan.
Don't get me wrong, Williamson is probs ahead, he is a monster at home averaging 11 runs more. But the Kiwi bros saying it's not close and he was better between 2014-19 is just hysterical to me.

Btw I voted Williamson

 

[thierry henry]

We need a moratorium on comparison threads with Kane Williamson in as they degenerate so quickly into some of the most egregiously flawed analyses ever committed to the internet. As someone who works with data everyday, the old adage that data without context isn’t information applies heavily to the superficiality of some of this analysis.

What gets me is KW was exceptional away from home in the period that I’m talking about, but I’m wasting precious mental energy trying to point out the giant elephant in the room to people who are being wilfully disingenuous or who are just too committed to a narrative to have a genuine conversation. I think I’m getting too old for this ****, basically.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Lol Williamson statpadded against farmers of sa in 2023/24 .

100 not out to save a test at 22? against peak Steyn (who broke his box), Philander, and Morkel in 2012. Scored a 77 in SA in 2016 which probably would've been a 100 if someone had stayed with him. Other test rained out with less than a day of cricket played.
2 100s in 3 tests against Rabada, Philander, Morkel, and Maharaj in 2018

 

[Johan]

I think in 2016-2019 neither Williamson nor a declining Root were viewed as peers to Kohl but Kohli has been extremely **** outside that timeframe.

 

[thierry henry]

It's pretty bogus but Kohli also just had to go on tough tours way more often. Can't on the one hand say Williamson hasn't had enough chances to tour due to wonky scheduling and then also not take into account how much more difficult it is to maintain good numbers while touring a lot.

I wasn’t talking about Kohli playing more tests than KW, my point was the 10 tests against England are more significant as a proportion of tests played by Kohli, and KW’s 2 tests against SL are less significant as a proportion of tests played by KW.

What the country-by-country analysis does is creates a fallacy where you see that KW has a better away average, but then see that maybe Kohli has a better average in more countries, so you conclude that Kohli is better and only ‘raw average dummies’ can’t see it. But of course, the reason KW has a higher average must be because he has a high average, and/or Kohli has a low average, against countries they played a high proportion of games against. Performances against those countries should accordingly be given more weight when assessing the career of the individual. I therefore fail to see how tallying up who has done better against each country really tells you much on its own.

In the period in question KW went on plenty of tours and to all the major nations and had an excellent record, there was no suggestion of me trying to excuse him by saying he didn’t get to play enough. There’s nothing to excuse because he gunned it overseas in the period in question.

 

[Daemon]

KW was not better than Kohli during ‘14-19
KW is overall better than Kohli

Does anyone actually disagree with these statements? Because they seem like pretty common sense observations to me.

 

[Daemon]

KW was not better than Kohli during ‘14-19
KW is overall better than Kohli

Does anyone actually disagree with these statements? Because they seem like pretty common sense observations to me.

I mean other than Fuller of course. And maybe that Narayana guy too.

 

[thierry henry]

KW was not better than Kohli during ‘14-19
KW is overall better than Kohli

Does anyone actually disagree with these statements? Because they seem like pretty common sense observations to me.

I’m not invested in KW being better than Kohli in 14-19 because they were both on absolute generational runs and were super elite and it seems petty to try and split them.

What I don’t accept is that Kohli was definitely better. I think this perspective is largely based on Kohli playing more high profile series and being more a part of the overall historical narrative of that era of cricket, and KW being a low-profile Kiwi, basically. KW could hardly have done more in that era, he was exceptional home and away.

 

[Daemon]

I’m not invested in KW being better than Kohli in 14-19 because they were both on absolute generational runs and were super elite and it seems petty to try and split them.

What I don’t accept is that Kohli was definitely better. I think this perspective is largely based on Kohli playing more high profile series and being more a part of the overall historical narrative of that era of cricket, and KW being a low-profile Kiwi, basically. KW could hardly have done more in that era, he was exceptional home and away.

Just answer yes or no bruh