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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread
- Thread starter NZTailender
- Start date
Athlai
Not Terrible
I'm absolutely with you that he was by no means a great opener but it's a fair argument that he might be marginally better than Latham. Opening wouldn't be the best place to play McCullum if you were trying to get the most out of him, but in picking a first XI for NZ - Baz doesn't crack the middle order, and he doesn't get the gloves.
Bahnz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Perhaps, but it's not one I agree with. Setting aside Zimbabwe, McCullum only averaged more than 30 against 2 countries (India and Pakistan), whereas Latham tops 30 v India, SL, Pakistan, WI, Bangladesh and England. Lies, damned lies and statistics you might say, but the only countries that Latham's really sucked against (SA and Aus), McCullum also sucked against.
Again, I think there's a case to be made that if McCullum had played under himself as coach he might well have been a 40+ average, 100+ SR monster. But I just don't think there's enough evidence from his opening career to suggest he's a better option than Latham.
Mike5181
International Captain
Even though he's **** now, i do think conway is a bit underrated in these discussions.
In games played together when both opening:
Tom Latham: 1093 with an average of 29.54. (think there was one 32* at number 3)
Devon Conway: 1358 with an average of 36.70
Conway also has some great away performances:
- player of the series against England away, including 200 at Lords
- top individual score with 54 in low scoring WTC final. second highest runs in match after Williamson.
- crucial scores of 91 (first test) and 74 (second test) against India in India. scored 201 runs in the first 2 tests, averaging 50 and pushing nz to 2-0 to win the series. only Ravindra had more runs in the first two games.
In games played together when both opening:
Tom Latham: 1093 with an average of 29.54. (think there was one 32* at number 3)
Devon Conway: 1358 with an average of 36.70
Conway also has some great away performances:
- player of the series against England away, including 200 at Lords
- top individual score with 54 in low scoring WTC final. second highest runs in match after Williamson.
- crucial scores of 91 (first test) and 74 (second test) against India in India. scored 201 runs in the first 2 tests, averaging 50 and pushing nz to 2-0 to win the series. only Ravindra had more runs in the first two games.
Athlai
Not Terrible
I have him as 4th best in the 2000s currently. Wouldn't be surprised if he moves up either.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
If you discard his keeping innings his record in the middle order means he might be a better shout than Fleming by 2 runs overall.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Obviously those with under 10 matches should be disregarded
Mike5181
International Captain
If you discard his keeping innings his record in the middle order means he might be a better shout than Fleming by 2 runs overall.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
Obviously those with under 10 matches should be disregarded
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Most impressive thing about Fleming is his away numbers. Literally doubles McCullum's average.
RossTaylorsBox
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Fleming had a ridiculously good record in Sri Lanka when they had peak Murali.
Bahnz
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Even setting Murali aside though, the only country where Fleming averaged less than he did in NZ was Australia, and even then his average v Aussie in Aussie (29) was way better than his average v Aussie in NZ (20).
I did always kinda think Fleming was a bit overrated by overseas commentators. Turns out the reason why was because he was a star on tour, and only started stinking up the joint when 90% of the cricketing world was fast asleep in bed.
I did always kinda think Fleming was a bit overrated by overseas commentators. Turns out the reason why was because he was a star on tour, and only started stinking up the joint when 90% of the cricketing world was fast asleep in bed.
Fleming either benefitted or was cursed, depending on your viewpoint, on the era he played in. His was the era of the great under-achievers, who had big reputations and resultant egos, but didn't deliver consistently. If you talk about comparative ability, Fleming v Nicholls should be night and day...yet both scored nine Test tons, Nicholls from 56 Tests and Fleming from 111. I see the argument that Fleming played on juicier NZ decks, but he scored 46 half tons around that. There shouldn't be a three-run difference with those guys.
With his talent, in an era of more accountability, he would have had to have made it work. But back then, he didn't have to. Good looking dude, charismatic, good leader, he was always going to be in the side.
If you ever watched him in the nets, you'd think here's a guy who could challenge Bradman.
NZTailender
I can't believe I ate the whole thing
Hasn't hurt Tommy L
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Must say, Macewell has been looking in very good form with the bat this SS.
Augurs well for him for the CT.
Wellington have been batting him too low. wonder if that is a directive or request from BC management (or himself?) to replicate his role at the higher level.
Augurs well for him for the CT.
Wellington have been batting him too low. wonder if that is a directive or request from BC management (or himself?) to replicate his role at the higher level.
Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Jock McKenzie's T20 bowling looking very progressed this season.
Jock bowls how I believe I bowl(ed) - beautiful side-on action with beautiful medium-paced outswingers. A relic from 1980's coaching. (Note: I've never actually seen myself bowl). Cannon fodder for T20s.
But this year he is nailing variations and 'wide holes' etc.
Jock bowls how I believe I bowl(ed) - beautiful side-on action with beautiful medium-paced outswingers. A relic from 1980's coaching. (Note: I've never actually seen myself bowl). Cannon fodder for T20s.
But this year he is nailing variations and 'wide holes' etc.
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Immenso
International Vice-Captain
Mo Abbas's T20 batting record is now looking pretty tidy. 29 average at 138 SR. For a 21 year old who comes out to bat at 5, 6 etc, this is worth commenting on. (Although he did bat 4 and sometimes 3 in his first season).
This gets my attention as looking like a proper all-format batter. As opposed to youngsters opening in T20 where all you need to do is be good enough to see/meet the ball and a superbat will clear the ring with ease anywhere within a 160 degrees arc of where you are actually aiming it.
This gets my attention as looking like a proper all-format batter. As opposed to youngsters opening in T20 where all you need to do is be good enough to see/meet the ball and a superbat will clear the ring with ease anywhere within a 160 degrees arc of where you are actually aiming it.
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