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Imran Khan vs Curtley Ambrose

Imran or Ambrose (Test)?

  • Total voters
    71
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
I do remember him saying this. I also remember his arguments months ago that SC bowlers be given some type of bonus for performing in Asian flat conditions not conducive to pace. I was curious to know if that applied to the batsmen as well but I don't recall if he ever came back to me.
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Yes, conditions in India in the 90s generally weren't flat. They were spin friendly and more result oriented.

Sliferxxxx said:
Then how come Imran sucked in those favorable conditions relatively speaking of course.
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Except he didn't. Anyone who says Imran sucked in Eng, Aus or WI doesn't know what they are talking about, are a blind average reader like you or are dishonest like Kyear.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
kyear2 said:
Yeah wonder if he'll answer that.

Sachin in the 90's was like Steyn in the 2000's, plus he had the minnows as buffers for the average.

But watch how that argument changes now.
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You know all along Subz kept emphasizing wpm and sr so naturally I assumed Imran had these two categories well ahead of Ambrose but looking now at the actual stats he doesn't.

Imran took 362 wkts in 86 tests (he didn't bowl in two) ~4.2 wpm at a sr of 53.8

Ambrose took 405 wkts in 98 tests~4.1 wpm at a sr of 54.6.


Of course Ambrose played which much more bowling competition so his wpm was never going to be relatively high, I'm actually surprised it's even comparable to Imran who mostly competed with Qadir and Sarfraz. Ok fine he had Wasim later.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
You know all along Subz kept emphasizing wpm and sr so naturally I assumed Imran had these two categories well ahead of Ambrose but looking now at the actual stats he doesn't.

Imran took 362 wkts in 86 tests (he didn't bowl in two) ~4.2 wpm at a sr of 53.8

Ambrose took 405 wkts in 98 tests~4.1 wpm at a sr of 54.6.
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Imran was a pure bat by the end of his career and at best a part time bowler and didn't bowl in more tests that indicated, and still ended up with better WPM and SR.

And Ambrose didn't have that bowling competition in his latter career half when his WPM declined.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
Yes, conditions in India in the 90s generally weren't flat. They were spin friendly and more result oriented.


Except he didn't. Anyone who says Imran sucked in Eng, Aus or WI doesn't know what they are talking about, are a blind average reader like you or are dishonest like Kyear.
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He didn't suck he just wasn't elite. Is that better? He actually did worse in Australia than Ambrose's did over 6 tests in Asia (in Pakistan if you want to limit it to that).
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
He didn't suck he just wasn't elite. Is that better? He actually did worse in Australia than Ambrose's did over 6 tests in Asia (in Pakistan if you want to limit it to that).
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No. I am copying the breakdown of Imran series by series in Aus. Comparing it to Ambrose in Pakistan doesn't make sense.

His 1990 series was an outlier we can exclude since he was basically a regular bat and part time bowler then.

His other series came in 84/85 when he played two tests as a pure bat and didn't bowl a ball as he had his shin injury.

Ignoring those, there are his series in Australia:

76/77: 18 wickets @ 26 breakthrough series against Aus the best side in the world, including his 12fer to draw the series

78: WSC 25 wickets @20, arguably the best bowler of the series

78/79: 7 wickets @40, poor series

80/81: 16 wickets@19 against a full strength Aus side

So in his actual bowling prime above, he took 66 wickets in 13 tests@24.

That's the reality of his Aus record. It's nothing short of very good.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Sliferxxxx said:
You know all along Subz kept emphasizing wpm and sr so naturally I assumed Imran had these two categories well ahead of Ambrose but looking now at the actual stats he doesn't.

Imran took 362 wkts in 86 tests (he didn't bowl in two) ~4.2 wpm at a sr of 53.8

Ambrose took 405 wkts in 98 tests~4.1 wpm at a sr of 54.6.


Of course Ambrose played which much more bowling competition so his wpm was never going to be relatively high, I'm actually surprised it's even comparable to Imran who mostly competed with Qadir and Sarfraz. Ok fine he had Wasim later.
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Yeah, I mentioned that earlier. He'll just make up some nonsense or deflect as usual.

Anyways back to Zverev.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
Imran was a pure bat by the end of his career and at best a part time bowler, and still ended up with better WPM and SR.
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Imran only missed bowling in 2 tests. And if Imran was a part time bowler, there were plenty of tests Ambrose like everyone else started but couldn't finish because of nagging injury. But they get counted against him all the same like any other bowler. Didn't someone on this thread already point out how Ambrose barely bowled in '97 in Pakistan because he was injured? Amby also had much more competition for wkts.

Anyway, the way you led on this whole thread about sr and wpm I thought Imran was in the 4.5 to 5 range but oh no he was literally on the same level as Ambrose. Then there's their average and econ where Amby is better. Those matter too.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
subshakerz said:
No. I am copying the breakdown of Imran series by series in Aus. Comparing it to Ambrose in Pakistan doesn't make sense.

His 1990 series was an outlier we can exclude since he was basically a regular bat and part time bowler then.

His other series came in 84/85 when he played two tests as a pure bat and didn't bowl a ball as he had his shin injury.

Ignoring those, there are his series in Australia:

76/77: 18 wickets @ 26 breakthrough series against Aus the best side in the world, including his 12fer to draw the series

78: WSC 25 wickets @20, arguably the best bowler of the series

78/79: 7 wickets @40, poor series

80/81: 16 wickets@19 against a full strength Aus side

So in his actual bowling prime above, he took 66 wickets in 13 tests@24.

That's the reality of his Aus record. It's nothing short of very good.
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Which other cricketer is this done for to justify how mediocre they were.

Let me answer that for you. None.

Everyone has caveats.

If you mention the caveats away, mention the ones at home.

But never that huh.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
He doesn't bother to look at the actual series in someone's record. If he did, he wouldn't be commenting the way he does.
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Oh really? He bowled Pakistan to one match winning performance all the way back in 76/77 then what else? Failure, great series and failure again. Overall, he was good not great in Australia. Shall we compare him to what Ambrose did there? Or that Ambrose very nearly won us the series away to Pakistan in 1990.
 
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