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Imran Khan vs Curtley Ambrose

Imran or Ambrose (Test)?

  • Total voters
    71
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
Imran played in those same bowling conditions, so shouldn't his record in NZ, Eng, Aus and WI be better? And especially so since Nz, Aus and Eng donot remotely compare to 90s Australia.
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With context:
Eng 47 wickets in 11 tests@23 (excluding teen debut)
Aus 66 wickets in 13 tests@24 (including WSC and excluding 84 and 1990 series played as bat)
WI 48 wickets in 8 tests@25 (no fuss here just an awesome record)
NZ 17 wickets in 4 tests @26 (small sample but hey at least he took more wickets than Ambrose)

Plus an awesome home record unlike Ambrose.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
Lillee gets held back from being among the top ATG pacers for unproven outside his chosen conditions. Same applies to Ambrose.

And I never said he was poor in NZ and SA. Just not the same threat as in Aus.


What context can make Ambrose playing 90 percent in Aus, Eng and WI better? He didn't succeed outside there. Let me know.

And yeah if you like I can provide context for Imran in Aus, WI, Eng, etc but I have a feeling you don't want to hear. Fact is Imran has more well rounded success.
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Well rounded in you opinion but he's the only atg fast bowler with an away average over 25. That's simply not good enough to be amongst the elites. I like my fast bowlers to average below 25. His average outside Pakistan without SL (minnows) is 26.4 at a sr of 60. Ambrose could double his matches in Asia, South Africa, and NZ and he wouldn't come remotely close to that.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
With context:
Eng 47 wickets in 11 tests@23 (excluding teen debut)
Aus 66 wickets in 13 tests@24 (including WSC and excluding 1990 series played as bat)
WI 48 wickets in 8 tests@25 (no fuss here just an awesome record)
NZ 17 wickets in 4 tests @26 (small sample but hey at least he took more wickets than Ambrose)

Plus an awesome home record unlike Ambrose.
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Lol lol here go with the bs not affored to anyone else like the fact that Ambrose was injured for much of the 90s. But I expected it. And how is Ambrose's home record not awesome??! And duh, Imran will take more wickets per match because he played with less competition. What is it with you and excluding certain aspects of players' records when YOU and only you pick and choose?? Smh.

My guy even with the caveat, still not close to Ambrose AND Imran was OK in the non home Asian country ie India.

Anyway, the voters have spoken. Ambrose has convincingly spanked Imran. Next!!!!
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
Lol lol here go with the bs not affored to anyone else like the fact that Ambrose was injured for much of the 90s
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Ok show me where you would like to contextualise Ambrose? For example I can ignore him in NZ.

Sliferxxxx said:
And how is Ambrose's home record not awesome??!
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Less than 4WPM and a SR of 57. Kind of ordinary for someone at home.

Sliferxxxx said:
And duh, Imran will take more wickets per match because he played with less competition.
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Not true. He has a better SR and had Wasim and Qadir to compete with.

Sliferxxxx said:
My guy even with the caveat, still not close to Ambrose AND Imran was OK in the non home Asian country ie India.
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No. The record I showed you is convincingly well rounded with worldclass returns for Imran whereas Ambrose is just concentrated success in three countries.

India for Imran is like Pak for Ambrose, both a good and bad series. But Imran has an entire home career in Pak to show for his SC record. Ambrose has nothing in SL and India.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
Yeah but what's the point if they struggle to take 4WPM?


You don't know that. He may end up with a bunch of >30 series in India and SL if he played them in the late 90s on those wickets.
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Umm he can go at 30 in SL and India but then, there are still NZ and RSA. If you believe a healthy Ambrose is doing any worse than his great teammate Walsh, then you need to share with me whatever you're on.

Ambrose wpm and you know this, has as much to do with the decline in WI batting/team as much as anything else. Can't expect the man to keep up with wickets when his team his putting up piss poor batting performances. See WI in England 2000, wi in south africa 1998 WI in Australia 1997 etc plus his post injury/surgery.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
Umm he can go at 30 in SL and India but then, there are still NZ and RSA. If you believe a healthy Ambrose is doing any worse than his great teammate Walsh, then you need to share with me whatever you're on.

Ambrose wpm and you know this, has as much to do with the decline in WI batting/team as much as anything else. Can't expect the man to keep up with wickets when his team his putting up piss poor batting performances. See WI in England 2000, wi in south africa 1998 WI in Australia 1997 etc plus his post injury/surgery.
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Serious question, would you have us discount Ambrose entire post 94 record entirely?

I mean, Wasim had diabetes in 98 that affected him but we still count his record after. Same with Warne and his injuries, and Botham. Unless he is playing through a temporary injury, if an injury causes a permanent change we just declare that part of the player regular performance.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
Ok show me where you would like to contextualise Ambrose? For example I can ignore him in NZ.


Less than 4WPM and a SR of 57. Kind of ordinary for someone at home.


Not true. He has a better SR and had Wasim and Qadir to compete with.


No. The record I showed you is convincingly well rounded with worldclass returns for Imran whereas Ambrose is just concentrated success in three countries.

India for Imran is like Pak for Ambrose, both a good and bad series. But Imran has an entire home career in Pak to show for his SC record. Ambrose has nothing in SL and India.
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Qadir lol lol seriously? Vs Walsh, Marshall, Bishop and the Benjamin's? You can't be serious. Qadir was nothing outside Asia.

Imran looks worldclass because of your little caveats ie excluding this and including that. Overall overseas it's 26 at 60 (without minnow bonus). Man I wish Ambrose had the same shot at 80s Nz, Eng and Australia that Imran had, then he would have feasted even more.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Sliferxxxx said:
Qadir lol lol seriously? Vs Walsh, Marshall, Bishop and the Benjamin's? You can't be serious. Qadir was nothing outside Asia.
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Competed at home certainly with Qadir.

Sliferxxxx said:
Imran looks worldclass because of your little caveats ie excluding this and including that. Overall overseas it's 26 at 60 (without minnow bonus).
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They aren't random caveats though. For example, in 84 in Aus he was playing as a pure bat, didn't bowl a ball. Does it make sense to include those tests? Etc.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

U19 Debutant
subshakerz said:
Serious question, would you have us discount Ambrose entire post 94 record entirely?

I mean, Wasim had diabetes in 98 that affected him but we still count his record after. Same with Warne and his injuries, and Botham. Unless he is playing through a temporary injury, if an injury causes a permanent change we just declare that part of the player regular performance.
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Of course not. Include it all you want, same way I include the records of all players through all phases of their careers. For example, I'd very much love to ignore Marshall's debut series in 1978 in India I believe when he was part of a 2nd WI team but I can't. I'd love to ignore his series in NZ in 1987 I believe when he was injured but I can't. He showed up on the park, therefore it gets included.
 
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