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Is James Anderson an ATG test bowler?

Is James Anderson an ATG test bowler?

  • Total voters
    73
R

Randomfan

School Boy/Girl Captain
I wanted to see if he had sub 25 avg with a good SR anytime playing away in tests involving top 5 teams. I may have missed some period for Anderson.


I see the two hottest streak mentioned above for Anderson.

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Since 2016: Anderson in Ind, Aus, SA and NZ : Avg 26-27 & SR in 67


Jul 2015-Feb 2021 : Anderson in Ind, SA, Aus and NZ : Avg 29 & SR 72

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Fans may have a different definition of ATG, but I don't rate anyone as an ATG pacers with such avg and SR in their peak. While watching him live, I felt the same and data during his hottest streak confirms it as well. No amount of volume can compensate for quality.

Again, there is no objecitve criterion for ATG, people can have 100 ATGs or just 10 with different cut off. Some put lots of emphasis on volume, I don't. As long as volume is enough to make a judgement, I will take high quality over volume any day. Anderson was never a tier 1 pacers , not even during his peak. During his peak, no great pacer strikes 65-70 per ball away against good teams with avg of 25 plus avg.

Jadeja has a better Avg than Warne against non-minnows due to home bullying. Does not make him an ATG for me. True greatness is doing well in tough tours. Yes, Warne was poor in India, that's why we should take top 5 test nation taken together.

Anderson had ATG like career at home.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
Yes, he is an ATG for me.

550 wickets at avg of 24 and good stats away from home and in Asia alongwith match winning performance and longevity between 2010-2023.
 
centurymaker

centurymaker

Cricketer Of The Year
Anderson is a boderline ATG like Walsh. He is among top 20 bowlers of all time

What he has done as a pacer no one else will ever manage to do. Take off his first few years and his career avg would be 24 with 500-550 wickets.
 
R

Randomfan

School Boy/Girl Captain
centurymaker said:
Anderson is a boderline ATG like Walsh. He is among top 20 bowlers of all time
Click to expand...
Walsh was actually very very good. He is a bit underrated,

To put his performance in context, after the first 5-6 tests - since 1986 till his retirement, he was simply very good overall. He was excellent when playing away from home. See below,

Since SL was minnow for 10 years of his career, we can see what Walsh did agasint all non-minnows in their dens and what others did as well.

Away performance of Walsh since 1986:

Walsh.jpg


Look at Walsh.

Since 1986 away,

Most away wickets in this list.
Only couple of pacers averaged better than Walsh
Walsh was striking it 56 balls per wickets with 14 5-fers.
A stretch of 68 away tests , right up there with longevity if fans wants to rate longevity, but he had quality to go with it as well.
 
kyear2

kyear2

International Coach
Randomfan said:
Walsh was actually very very good. He is a bit underrated,

To put his performance in context, after the first 5-6 tests - since 1986 till his retirement, he was simply very good overall. He was excellent when playing away from home. See below,

Since SL was minnow for 10 years of his career, we can see what Walsh did agasint all non-minnows in their dens and what others did as well.

Away performance of Walsh since 1986:

View attachment 44457


Look at Walsh.

Since 1986 away,

Most away wickets in this list.
Only couple of pacers averaged better than Walsh
Walsh was striking it 56 balls per wickets with 14 5-fers.
A stretch of 68 away tests , right up there with longevity if fans wants to rate longevity, but he had quality to go with it as well.
Click to expand...
Walsh definitely ahead of Anderson for me, and no neither is an ATG imo.
 
R

Randomfan

School Boy/Girl Captain
kyear2 said:
Walsh definitely ahead of Anderson for me, and no neither is an ATG imo.
Click to expand...
Turning it on in tough tours with some consistency is a major factor for me to rate some one high. I have changed my opinion on Waqar as well due to how he bowled away against good teams. I had a vastly superior impression of him due to being my childhood hero. But as a bowler you got to pick wickets cheaply and quickly away against top teams. That's the hardest job in test cricket. Without passing that filter, you just fall short of best in history.

I was only trying to add context because I think Walsh was a tier above Anderson. He should have a better chance than Anderson in anyone cut off. Longevity is a non-issue as well with Walsh. He simply kept going and his volume is very high. I will leave exact cut off to every fan because there is no fix criterion for an ATG. I won't have a problem if some one rates Walsh as an ATG or not.
 
L

loterry1994

International Debutant
I think he is an ATG but on the lower tier. Mainly because of his longevity at bowling at a high level and rarely getting injured. He could have went a few more years longer as well. Now if you had of cut his career back to where he was about on his 400-500 wickets mark then I wouldn’t think his an atg
 
R

Randomfan

School Boy/Girl Captain
We don't have 50 test pacers better than Anderson. It's simply not possible.

To put it in context,

We have only 46 pacers with sub 29 avg and 150 plus career wickets.


1737033805787.png

We can also look away,

We have only 37 pacers with sub 31 avg and 100 plus wickets away

1737034264323.png


You can go through both lists and see how many come ahead of him for you.

Anderson should make into the top 25 pacers without giving him any credit for longevity.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
Walsh statistically has better average and more all round record than Anderson.

But one needs to remember that Walsh in first half of his career was just a stock bowler and played supporting role to Marshall and Garner.

Ambrose came around 1989 and became the main man for Windies with Walsh and Bishop being his partner in crime.

It was only in latter part of his career that he was seen as a serious threat at a same level as Ambrose.

Anderson’s longevity lasted for 20 years and his prime started from 2010. 550 wickets@24 avg which included relatively more balanced record home, away and Asia and he did it being the lead bowler in his team.

I think both bowlers are product of longevity and great fitness but Anderson’s impact towards the game has been no lesser than Walsh.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
Coronis said:
Bringing up first halves of careers is a really good argument for Anderson > Walsh
Click to expand...
Is that a sarcasm? Because Anderson was also poor in first half although his stats demonstrated that.

Walsh played in an ATG bowling lineup and relatively lesser impact didn’t hurt his stats. Actually he picked like 130-140 wickets in first 40 tests at avg of 25?
 
Coronis

Coronis

International Coach
Rob Wesley said:
Is that a sarcasm? Because Anderson was also poor in first half although his stats demonstrated that.

Walsh played in an ATG bowling lineup and relatively lesser impact didn’t hurt his stats. Actually he picked like 130-140 wickets in first 40 tests at avg of 25?
Click to expand...
Yes that is a sarcasm.
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
Randomfan said:
We don't have 50 test pacers better than Anderson. It's simply not possible.

To put it in context,

We have only 46 pacers with sub 29 avg and 150 plus career wickets.


View attachment 44469

We can also look away,

We have only 37 pacers with sub 31 avg and 100 plus wickets away

View attachment 44470


You can go through both lists and see how many come ahead of him for you.

Anderson should make into the top 25 pacers without giving him any credit for longevity.
Click to expand...
of these bowlers, can we remove those who were support bowlers with low WPM because they just got lucky playing with a strong bowling attack and hence their averages didn’t hurt because you can use them only when they are bowling well and you have cushion?An example of support bowlers but still high quality one would be Garner, he was a one change bowler but still managed an excellent WPM.

Some of these names :-

Philander
Statham
Walsh
Hazelwood
 
R

Rob Wesley

School Boy/Girl Captain
sayon basak said:
Walsh is a tier above the other 3.
Click to expand...
That’s right but his average during first half of his career was misleading. That WPM is low. Hence, I would put him in same tier as Anderson.

Similarly for Pollock second half he was support bowler to Ntini and that WPM was low for him.
 
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