All Rounders Poll - Discussion

[Line and Length]

It won't have held much relevance, had Greig had a 12 year long Test career, atleast. He doesn't. Barrington also had one of 10 years and played in relatively his peak, Greig took it to the extreme. No shade of him, did very well in his 6 year career, but it was a 6 year Test career; and his FC average, however spun, implies that he was quite lucky it was 6 years long. I find it hard to rate him over Mushtaq Mohammad for eg.

As I mentioned, I don't regard FC figures as being particularly relevant. However, as you have compared his batting averages, I think you should do the same with his bowling stats where his FC figures are superior to his Test figures (not relevant, but interesting).
Greig also suffered epilepsy and his Test career was curtailed, not by war, but WSC where he was heavily involved in recruiting players on behalf of Packer. With WSC his energies were more devoted to promoting that than actually playing (he played just 4 games).

 

[capt_Luffy]

As I mentioned, I don't regard FC figures as being particularly relevant. However, as you have compared his batting averages, I think you should do the same with his bowling stats where his FC figures are superior to his Test figures (not relevant, but interesting).
Greig also suffered epilepsy and his Test career was curtailed, not by war, but WSC where he was heavily involved in recruiting players on behalf of Packer. With WSC his energies were more devoted to promoting that than actually playing (he played just 4 games).

Yes, bowling stats are better in non Test games, but not significantly so, unlike his batting ones. Had he averaged like 19/20, I won't had complaint about the level below though would have brought it up as an interesting element. His bowling stats are in line with what you would expect from a medium pace/off spin bowler who averages 32 in Tests to do in a level below.
I know of the WSC fiasco and Greig's involvement, but as I said, it worked out in the positive direction for him imo. At the end of the day, his career is too short and making up for that with FC numbers do more damage than good. As I said, I can't see a case for him over someone like Ben Stokes and Mushtaq Mohammad. Would take Barlow ahead definitely as well.

 

[Line and Length]

Yes, bowling stats are better in non Test games, but not significantly so, unlike his batting ones. Had he averaged like 19/20, I won't had complaint about the level below though would have brought it up as an interesting element. His bowling stats are in line with what you would expect from a medium pace/off spin bowler who averages 32 in Tests to do in a level below.
I know of the WSC fiasco and Greig's involvement, but as I said, it worked out in the positive direction for him imo. At the end of the day, his career is too short and making up for that with FC numbers do more damage than good. As I said, I can't see a case for him over someone like Ben Stokes and Mushtaq Mohammad. Would take Barlow ahead definitely as well.

I'll just have to accept that you won't be voting for Greig in the immediate future, just as you have to accept that I (and others) have already voted for him. That's what these polls are all about. Opinions, perceptions and facts. Viva la difference.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'll just have to accept that you won't be voting for Greig in the immediate future, just as you have to accept that I (and others) have already voted for him. That's what these polls are all about. Opinions, perceptions and facts. Viva la difference.

Viva! I will just add I never complaint why people were voting for Greig, I just said why I don't necessarily rate him much high and have an opposition to notion that he's underrated.

 

[Coronis]

re: Greig. Another player to look at may be Botham.

Say Botham had retired after the 82/83 Ashes.

He’d have test stats of

59 tests 3266 @ 36.69 11 tons 267 @ 24.47 20 5’fers

in non test FC up to that point (he started FC in 74, 2 years before his test debut)

153 matches 6583 @ 30.62 9 tons 488 @ 25.02 23 5’fers

Definitely raised his game massively in tests in his peak, no?

 

[capt_Luffy]

re: Greig. Another player to look at may be Botham.

Say Botham had retired after the 82/83 Ashes.

He’d have test stats of

59 tests 3266 @ 36.69 11 tons 267 @ 24.47 20 5’fers

in non test FC up to that point (he started FC in 74, 2 years before his test debut)

153 matches 6583 @ 30.62 9 tons 488 @ 25.02 23 5’fers

Definitely raised his game massively in tests in his peak, no?

Still not nearly as big a deviation as Greig. Also enforces my point, 6 years is way too short for an international career of a Top tier player.

 

[Prince EWS]

re: Greig. Another player to look at may be Botham.

Say Botham had retired after the 82/83 Ashes.

He’d have test stats of

59 tests 3266 @ 36.69 11 tons 267 @ 24.47 20 5’fers

in non test FC up to that point (he started FC in 74, 2 years before his test debut)

153 matches 6583 @ 30.62 9 tons 488 @ 25.02 23 5’fers

Definitely raised his game massively in tests in his peak, no?

Yeah Greig's FC record with the bat definitely makes me a bit ehhh about him. It wouldn't if he was actually playing Tests throughout his whole career, but he definitely was not.

See also: Barrington (sorry mate)

 

[Coronis]

Yeah Greig's FC record with the bat definitely makes me a bit ehhh about him. It wouldn't if he was actually playing Tests throughout his whole career, but he definitely was not.

See also: Barrington (sorry mate)

Barrington just liked to raise his game. If he was playing club cricket he’d be averaging 20 with the bat.

 

[Prince EWS]

Barrington just liked to raise his game. If he was playing club cricket he’d be averaging 20 with the bat.

**** him them, ATGs need to play well for Sydney Northern Districts under fake names when I pull them out of time machines, what use is all this otherwise??

 

[Line and Length]

A tongue-in-cheek question:
How many names would we have to have on our list before Mitch Marsh earns a spot in our poll?

 

[sayon basak]

A tongue-in-cheek question:
How many names would we have to have on our list before Mitch Marsh earns a spot in our poll?

He should be below Garner.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A tongue-in-cheek question:
How many names would we have to have on our list before Mitch Marsh earns a spot in our poll?

There have been 3,211 test cricketers. As some with fairly dubious claims of being "allrounders" would be listed first, I'd estimate 300ish.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Everyone knows Hammond could bowl, serious level talent ish for a batsman. But he didn’t really bowl enough hence he probably doesn’t deserve a place here tbh.

 

[Qlder]

Someone is butt hurt over last result. They just started a Tony Greig vs Trevor Goddard poll in player comparisons

 

[sayon basak]

Someone is butt hurt over last result. They just started a Tony Greig vs Trevor Goddard poll in player comparisons

Seemed like both are really highly rated in CW. That's why the poll was created, just to see who is rated higher and what are the arguments. Nothing else.

Have a good day!

 

[Qlder]

I'm glad Monty Noble finally got a vote (I almost voted for him and probaly should have). Averaging 30 with the bat and 25 will the ball in the 1900's decade is pretty special when you consider Victor Trumper as one of the greatest bats averaged 39 in same period.

 

[shortpitched713]

The impact and grey areas of "borderline allrounders" is exactly why I don't have more than a top 11 list, personally.

 

[ataraxia]

I'm glad Monty Noble finally got a vote (I almost voted for him and probaly should have). Averaging 30 with the bat and 25 will the ball in the 1900's decade is pretty special when you consider Victor Trumper as one of the greatest bats averaged 39 in same period.

He was better than that with the bat too. A rare FC average above 40.

 

[sayon basak]

He was better than that with the bat too. A rare FC average above 40.

Yeah, was considered as a better batter than Faulkner in FC.

And a great fieldsman and a captain too.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm glad Monty Noble finally got a vote (I almost voted for him and probaly should have). Averaging 30 with the bat and 25 will the ball in the 1900's decade is pretty special when you consider Victor Trumper as one of the greatest bats averaged 39 in same period.

Yeah he's on my shortlist for sure. Standardising for era and opposition etc I have him at 38 batting and 30 bowling. Definitely in Australia's top four allrounders for me along with Miller, Davo and Benaud.