*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Prince EWS]

The SA team for the Champions Trophy is going to be fun.

 

[ataraxia]

Looks like Champions Trophy is happening at sane time as SA20. So, of the free-lancers, I believe Conway and Williamson are playing SA20?

So, big hole in NZ top 3.

These games v SL, and thae warm-ups in Feb in Pakistan are 'for real' for Chapman and co

The SA20 and Champions Trophy do not clash.

 

[SteveNZ]

Looks like Champions Trophy is happening at sane time as SA20. So, of the free-lancers, I believe Conway and Williamson are playing SA20?

So, big hole in NZ top 3.

These games v SL, and thae warm-ups in Feb in Pakistan are 'for real' for Chapman and co

Are we actually serious that Kane is going to miss a major ICC tournament to play in an SA domestic hit and giggle?

**** me, if so that is the sign of the zeitgeist. NZs greatest ever player, former World Cup player of the tournament and noted average T20 player choosing to play for the Natal Braii over his country. Surely not.

 

[SteveNZ]

The SA20 and Champions Trophy do not clash.

Phew. I was certain that can't be true. As PEWS said in a rare non meme posting, that would have made SAs team an abomination

 

[Immenso]

Yeah, I looked at SA20 fixtures, but were for 2024, not 2025.

Nothing to se here, move along.

 

[ataraxia]

Looks like the CT squads have to be released by 12 Jan -- so after this series. It might well be a bowl-off between Smith and Duffy for the final pace slot to complement Henry/O'Rourke/Ferguson. That is, assuming Jamieson and Shipley aren't being considered. I think Chapman will make the squad in lieu of Hay. The third spinner slot, if utilised at all, will probably go to Sodhi and not at all unreasonably but I'd prefer to see Ashok or Lennox.

 

[CricAddict]

Looks like the CT squads have to be released by 12 Jan -- so after this series. It might well be a bowl-off between Smith and Duffy for the final pace slot to complement Henry/O'Rourke/Ferguson. That is, assuming Jamieson and Shipley aren't being considered. I think Chapman will make the squad in lieu of Hay. The third spinner slot, if utilised at all, will probably go to Sodhi and not at all unreasonably but I'd prefer to see Ashok or Lennox.

Is a third spinner really needed? I think the 3 all-rounders Santner, Philips and Bracewell can easily get 20 overs between them.

 

[straw man]

Looks like the CT squads have to be released by 12 Jan -- so after this series. It might well be a bowl-off between Smith and Duffy for the final pace slot to complement Henry/O'Rourke/Ferguson. That is, assuming Jamieson and Shipley aren't being considered. I think Chapman will make the squad in lieu of Hay. The third spinner slot, if utilised at all, will probably go to Sodhi and not at all unreasonably but I'd prefer to see Ashok or Lennox.

I don't really know who our best ODI side is at the moment. You think O'Rourke is guaranteed? Hasn't played many ODIs. And Ferguson but no Milne? As non-contracted players I would expect them to be treated similarly, though yes I'd put Ferguson slightly ahead. Duffy over Smith in ODIs at the moment imo.

I agreed with the conclusion last world cup that we should move on from Latham in ODIs. I'd prefer Hay had more NZ matches under his belt but would still pick him and hopefully he makes the starting XI.

As pure batsmen we have three that have underwhelmend in tournaments and/or when the pressure is on - Young, Latham, Chapman - but have to pick at least two of those for the squad I think. I'd choose Young and the other is a toss-up.

Conway
Ravindra
Williamson
Young
Mitchell
Phillips
Hay +
M Bracewell
Santner *
Henry
Ferguson

Duffy
Latham/Chapman
_
_

Am I forgetting anyone?

Edit: Forgot Conway, he's back in now.

 

[ataraxia]

I don't really know who our best ODI side is at the moment. You think O'Rourke is guaranteed? Hasn't played many ODIs. And Ferguson but no Milne? As non-contracted players I would expect them to be treated similarly, though yes I'd put Ferguson slightly ahead. Duffy over Smith in ODIs at the moment imo.

I agreed with the conclusion last world cup that we should move on from Latham in ODIs. I'd prefer Hay had more NZ matches under his belt but would still pick him and hopefully he makes the starting XI.

As pure batsmen we have three that have underwhelmend in tournaments and/or when the pressure is on - Young, Latham, Chapman - but have to pick at least two of those I think. I'd choose Young and the other is a toss-up.

Young
Ravindra
Williamson
Mitchell
Latham/Chapman
Phillips
Hay +
M Bracewell
Santner *
Henry
Ferguson

Duffy
Latham/Chapman
_
_

Am I forgetting anyone?

Didn't realise Milne went on the SL tour. Feels wrong that he's still kicking.

Hopefully Conway finds some form in the SA20.

 

[Bahnz]

I don't really know who our best ODI side is at the moment. You think O'Rourke is guaranteed? Hasn't played many ODIs. And Ferguson but no Milne? As non-contracted players I would expect them to be treated similarly, though yes I'd put Ferguson slightly ahead. Duffy over Smith in ODIs at the moment imo.

Yeah Duffy definitely ahead of Smith imo. Actually has a really impressive List A record, and I think his tall out-swingers pair pretty well with Henry's scramble-seamers. Smith obviously provides you with the advantage of a ridiculously batting deep line-up, but I think his height and pace would be cannon fodder in Pakistan in the later overs. Duffy at least gives you the extra bounce and a boat load more experience of how to bowl in the death overs.

The other option would be to give Ferguson the new ball and have O'Rourke bowl first change. Ferguson's been bowling some gorgeous inswingers in the BBL. But it would be a pretty high risk option. O'Rourke's yet to really display the control needed in white ball cricket and I could see him being absolutely pulverised on a bad day.

 

[Flem274*]

In addition to Bahnz great points, I'm also content to let O'Rourke and Smith focus on their best format (tests). Pay them accordingly as well.

Duffy has always been more consistent with the white ball compared to the red, and is generally more suited to white ball than Smith as already stated.

 

[NZTailender]

So Gup officially retires, which begs the question - was he still holding out for a recall?

Sounds harsh, and as a great a white ball servant as he's been (and in some ways unfortunate not to have been given a longer run at 5 in the test side), I would've thought he'd have announced it officially by now, so makes you wonder if someone had said they may have had him in their vague plans for the CT if none of Ravindra, Young, Conway, Bowes or Allen worked out (but two have so yeah)

 

[Athlai]

One of our ODI greats and I get the holding out for a recall honestly. There was probably a few injuries that could've occurred that may have genuinely seen it happen even at this stage.

 

[NZTailender]

I don't really know who our best ODI side is at the moment. You think O'Rourke is guaranteed? Hasn't played many ODIs. And Ferguson but no Milne? As non-contracted players I would expect them to be treated similarly, though yes I'd put Ferguson slightly ahead. Duffy over Smith in ODIs at the moment imo.

I agreed with the conclusion last world cup that we should move on from Latham in ODIs. I'd prefer Hay had more NZ matches under his belt but would still pick him and hopefully he makes the starting XI.

As pure batsmen we have three that have underwhelmend in tournaments and/or when the pressure is on - Young, Latham, Chapman - but have to pick at least two of those for the squad I think. I'd choose Young and the other is a toss-up.

Conway
Ravindra
Williamson
Young
Mitchell
Phillips
Hay +
M Bracewell
Santner *
Henry
Ferguson

Duffy
Latham/Chapman
_
_

Am I forgetting anyone?

Edit: Forgot Conway, he's back in now.

Deciding on form is difficult because we've played **** all ODIs in the last 12 months and if you go back 18 months our leading wicket taker is....Trent Boult.

I think Young is better served opening, and I'm not convinced about Conway's overall form and eye. I'd also like to see Phillips up the order to get more of our of him...problem is we haven't got a huge reserve of lower order guys with recent form. Chapman and Latham averages are the wrong side of 30. Unless we give Conway a run lower down, it may pay to start bringing some more newer blood through lower down, or give a guy like Clarkson more of a secure run.



Young
Ravindra
Williamson
Mitchell
Phillips
May+
Clarkson/Bracewell
Santner
Henry
Duffy
O'Rourke

 

[NZTailender]

One of our ODI greats and I get the holding out for a recall honestly. There was probably a few injuries that could've occurred that may have genuinely seen it happen even at this stage.

Honestly one of Ravindra or Young goes down and I wouldn't mind him over Bowes, Allen, Robinson, or even Conway for a CT swansong

 

[Athlai]

It is probably the relatively decent form of the backups that has given him that last little shove out the door. I don't think any would necessarily be an outright better option than Guppy but if they're not significantly worse, then even NZC won't bend over backwards to give this particular veteran a swansong.

 

[Prince EWS]

It is probably the relatively decent form of the backups that has given him that last little shove out the door. I don't think any would necessarily be an outright better option than Guppy but if they're not significantly worse, then even NZC won't bend over backwards to give this particular veteran a swansong.

Yeah it's not like he's Tim Southee or something.

 

[Athlai]

I was going to say at least Guppy would probably score a 50 on his way out the door, but weirdly Southee actually did that. Bugger all wickets but a jammy 50. WAG

 

[Prince EWS]

I was going to say at least Guppy would probably score a 50 on his way out the door, but weirdly Southee actually did that. Bugger all wickets but a jammy 50. WAG

50uthee

 

[straw man]

It's opposite skills - Guptill would've taken a legendary retirement wicket with his offspin, like Ross Taylor.

But you're right, we should have a three month festival-of-Guptill to say our goodbyes. Everyone could chop a toe off in sympathy.

Glib comments aside, a great white-ball batsman for us and truly destructive at his peak - congrats to the Gup on a fantastic career.