Would you play Keith Miller in your Australia ATG XI?

[honestbharani]

Yes

 

[subshakerz]

That wasn't the question asked.

If he's the 5th bowler in the attack listed, how much overs is he really going to get. And is that worth the massive drop off in batting from a Border / Smith?

So again how many overs do you think he'll bowl, and how much do you think he'll average in the bat.

The 5th bowler question really goes into team philosophy.

I just think the team is more imbalanced if you insist on 5 regular bowlers, the 5th won't even get that many overs.

 

[kyear2]

Putting Miller in an XI is like putting in a hybrid of Mark Waugh (batting output and slip catching) and Jason Gillespie (pace bowling).

The stats don't quite match but I think the analogy works in terms of imagining how significant his skills were.

It's so very true, and I don't want to portray that Miller isn't a serous ATG talent and player.

Just in my mind doesn't quite fit.

 

[subshakerz]

It's so very true, and I don't want to portray that Miller isn't a serous ATG talent and player.

Just in my mind doesn't quite fit.

Fits at no.8 until Cummins becomes inevitable.

 

[Line and Length]

It's so very true, and I don't want to portray that Miller isn't a serous ATG talent and player.

Just in my mind doesn't quite fit.

Doesn't fit ... according to you. We know your thoughts on this topic, and I respect your right to express your opinion, but please don't labour the point ad nauseum.

 

[subshakerz]

So let's look at my Aussie AT XI

Hayden | Simpson | Bradman | Smith | Chappell | Border | Gilchrist | Warne | Cummins | Lillee | McGrath

The WI

Worrell | Greenidge | Headley | Richards | Lara | Sobers | Walcott | Marshall | Holding | Ambrose | Gibbs

Am I crazy for thinking that WI look like the stronger side?

They have a better pace attack and 5th bowler. And outside obviously Bradman, man to man slightly better batting quality.

I would also point out that Warne is likely to be collared by the WI whereas Gibbs will keep it incredibly tight and increase pressure on the bats for the pacers even if he doesn't take wickets.

Really depends how highly we rate Bradman in these scenarios. I don't see him anymore as twice the value of a worldclass bat. I see him averaging in the 70 zone perhaps.

 

[Qlder]

The 5th bowler question really goes into team philosophy.

I just think the team is more imbalanced if you insist on 5 regular bowlers, the 5th won't even get that many overs.

How's that team of only 4 bowlers going against the Aussie ATG XI. They finally get Bradman, Chappell and Ponting out with Aus 5-350 and Gilchrist walks in

 

[mr_mister]

Am I crazy for thinking that WI look like the stronger side?

They have a better pace attack and 5th bowler. And outside obviously Bradman, man to man slightly better batting quality.

I would also point out that Warne is likely to be collared by the WI whereas Gibbs will keep it incredibly tight and increase pressure on the bats for the pacers even if he doesn't take wickets.

Really depends how highly we rate Bradman in these scenarios. I don't see him anymore as twice the value of a worldclass bat. I see him averaging in the 70 zone perhaps.

I think whatever ground Windies makes up "man to man" outside of Bradman in the batting line-up, plus arguably a stronger bowling line-up, is still not matched by ridiculous advantage a team has with Bradman at 3. If you want to say he'd average 70 today, you'd have to dock Headley down to 40 right?

 

[Red]

That wasn't the question asked.

If he's the 5th bowler in the attack listed, how much overs is he really going to get. And is that worth the massive drop off in batting from a Border / Smith?

So again how many overs do you think he'll bowl, and how much do you think he'll average in the bat.

He’d bowl plenty and if you select him. He’s an elite quick. The ability to rotate quicks is important, as is having a genuine third quick if you choose two spinners

 

[subshakerz]

I think whatever ground Windies makes up "man to man" outside of Bradman in the batting line-up, plus arguably a stronger bowling line-up, is still not matched by ridiculous advantage a team has with Bradman at 3. If you want to say he'd average 70 today, you'd have to dock Headley down to 40 right?

I don't know for sure how much to mark down Bradman and Headley. I just don't think Bradman should be assumed to be a double worldclass bat. He gives a definite advantage no doubt. I just don't think it is insurmountable if the rest of the WI lineup is generally superior.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Am I crazy for thinking that WI look like the stronger side?

They have a better pace attack and 5th bowler. And outside obviously Bradman, man to man slightly better batting quality.

I would also point out that Warne is likely to be collared by the WI whereas Gibbs will keep it incredibly tight and increase pressure on the bats for the pacers even if he doesn't take wickets.

Really depends how highly we rate Bradman in these scenarios. I don't see him anymore as twice the value of a worldclass bat. I see him averaging in the 70 zone perhaps.

You can just go O’Reilly if so. Both O’Reilly and Warne are levels above of Gibbs as a bowler. That’s definitely a advantage.

 

[subshakerz]

You can just go O’Reilly if so. Both O’Reilly and Warne are levels above of Gibbs as a bowler. That’s definitely a advantage.

You aren't going to defeat this WI batting with spin over a series.

Gibbs complements the other pacers by just keeping things tight on one end.

 

[mr_mister]

I don't know for sure how much to mark down Bradman and Headley. I just don't think Bradman should be assumed to be a double worldclass bat. He gives a definite advantage no doubt. I just don't think it is insurmountable if the rest of the WI lineup is generally superior.

He was double a world class bat when Hammond, Hobbs and Hutton were around. Hell, his retirement is close enough to Sobers debut that we can make a comparison there too!


It's weird to accept, as yes he could get a peach first ball and get a duck, but the reality is he tonned up every 2 matches for 2 decades. He really was that good

 

[subshakerz]

He was double a world class bat when Hammond, Hobbs and Hutton were around. Hell, his retirement is close enough to Sobers debut that we can make a comparison there too!


It's weird to accept, as yes he could get a peach first ball and get a duck, but the reality is he tonned up every 2 matches for 2 decades. He really was that good

I think he was more exceptional than his contemporaries at cashing in on the medium attacks and stretching his innings. Don't know how much it translates against a WI top tier attack.

 

[sayon basak]

fair but Gilchrist was objectively the better bat

Don't think we always have to go for the better bat to play up the order. Switching their batting order wouldn't hurt either I guess.

 

[sayon basak]

Just imagine a team where the entry of the 4th greatest All rounder of all time in an AT XI is questionable.

 

[sayon basak]

@capt_Luffy can I see your first 10 BD XI's? That'd be cool.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

You aren't going to defeat this WI batting with spin over a series.

Gibbs complements the other pacers by just keeping things tight on one end.

That’s not the only thing tho. You have McGrath, and 2 of Lindwall, Davo or Lillee to bowl fast. They are definitely close enough to West Indies quicks and then you have spinner who is just in different level. Australia has a clear enough edge in bowling. Batting too is slightly stronger with Bradman and Gilchrist.

The biggest lagging point for Australia is probably openers and West Indies can’t take any advantage of that too.

 

[capt_Luffy]

@capt_Luffy can I see your first 10 BD XI's? That'd be cool.

I don't think 110 players have played for Bangladesh....... Have a first 5 though:

Bangladesh XI:

1. Tamim Iqbal
2. Litton Das+
3. Monimul Hoque
4. Habibul Bashar*
5. Shakib Al Hasan
6. Mushfiqur Rahim
7. Mahmudullah
8. Mehedy Hasan Miraj
9. Mashrafe Mortaza
10. Taijul Islam
11. Mustafizur Rahman


Bangladesh A:

1. Javed Omar
2. Imrul Keyes
3. Najmul Hossain Shanto
4. Naeem Islam
5. Nasir Hossain
6. Mohammad Ashraful
7. Khaled Mashud+*
8. Mohammad Rafique
9. Nayeem Hasan
10. Mahmud Hossain
11. Shoriful Islam


Bangladesh B:

1. Zakir Hasan
2. Shadnam Islam
3. Soumya Sarkar
4. Tushar Imran
5. Junaid Siddique
6. Alok Kapali
7. Nurul Hasan Sohan+
8. Sohag Gazi
9. Enamul Hoque Jr
10. Nahid Rana
11. Taskin Ahmed


Bangladesh C:

1. Mahmudul Hasan Joy
2. Shahriar Nafees
3. Aminul Islam*
4. Rajin Saleh
5. Sabbir Rahman
6. Shuvgata Hom
7. Abdur Razzak
8. Salim Mohammad+
9. Abu Jayed
10. Shahadat Hossain
11. Enamul Hoque


Bangladesh D:

1. Al Shahriar
2. Hanan Sarkar
3. Nafees Iqbal
4. Akram Khan
5. Jahurul Islam
6. Naimur Rehman*
7. Mehrab Hossain+
8. Robiul Islam
9. Tapash Baisya
10. Jubair Hossain
11. Ebadot Hossain

 

[the big bambino]

I think he was more exceptional than his contemporaries at cashing in on the medium attacks and stretching his innings. Don't know how much it translates against a WI top tier attack.

People say that to comfort themselves. The batting averages in every decade since WW1 has been basically the same. They're have been extraordinary and ordinary bowlers every decade.