Brian Lara vs Sunil Gavaskar

[Jumno]

Lara, played in some great series against an ATG Australia side, Sri Lanka.

Many 200s.

He was a bit inconsistent and never scored a hundred against Wasim, Waqur and Donald.

 

[sayon basak]

I genuinely think geniuses are overrated. The output matters.

This.

Talent does not exist.

 

[DrWolverine]

This.

Talent does not exist.

How talented was Steven Smith considered as a batsman before he made his test debut?

 

[sayon basak]

How talented was Steven Smith considered as a batsman before he made his test debut?

Don't think he was even seen as someone who would bat up the order, more of a leg spinning all rounder I'd say.

 

[DrWolverine]

Don't think he was even seen as someone who would bat up the order, more of a leg spinning all rounder I'd say.

A proof that accomplishments mean more than talent.

 

[subshakerz]

This is the problem with leaving half a post out. I clearly said they were "geniuses". Sachin was brilliant, Ponting was brilliant, Smith is extraordinary but none of them are geniuses. Genius is something you know when you see it. Other bats worked day and night and became run machines, those 3 had that touch of genius. Perhaps ABDV has it - that's it.

I made a thread on it once.

Masters vs Geniuses in ATGs

Is it fair to use these two categories to describe those who are ATGs? Masters are those who are the most accomplished technicians in terms of getting the temperament and technique all sorted out, and taking the fundamentals of cricket to their highest level of skill in performance. This is not...

www.cricketweb.net

 

[Coronis]

tbh I’d consider pretty much every ATG a genius in their own right.

“an exceptionally intelligent person or one with exceptional skill in a particular area of activity.”

 

[sayon basak]

tbh I’d consider pretty much every ATG a genius in their own right.

“an exceptionally intelligent person or one with exceptional skill in a particular area of activity.”

Actually, what I think is you have to be a genius to make it into international cricket at the first place, but guess that's just me.

 

[subshakerz]

tbh I’d consider pretty much every ATG a genius in their own right.

“an exceptionally intelligent person or one with exceptional skill in a particular area of activity.”

Some ATGs should can teach others to play like, others you cannot.

 

[Coronis]

Some ATGs should can teach others to play like, others you cannot.

I don’t think anyone could teach someone to play like Steve Smith.

 

[sayon basak]

I don’t think anyone could teach someone to play like Steve Smith.

Everybody can. You just have to jump around and shout "No Run" after leaving every ball.

 

[Wanna_Be_AB]

Everybody can. You just have to jump around and shout "No Run" after leaving every ball.

And also know how to fake cry when you get caught.

 

[Thala_0710]

As far as subject of the thread is concerned, the answer is pretty straightforward as you have given in your above post.
But beyond a point, classifying someone as a genius or not, does become vague and subjective.
For example - would Sachin (not Gavaskar) rank as a genius in the same category as Lara?
Here, in my opinion, it becomes subjective.
To me Sachin was every bit as much a genius as Lara was.
While Lara's genius is pretty much in-your-face, Sachin's genius is more subtle.
Sachin's unique ability to time the ball while playing it extremely close to his body is sheer genius to me. This enabled him to score runs by just playing classical cricketing shots often against good/great deliveries without taking risks. To me, that in itself is a genius.
To me, genius needn't always mean - to be unconventional, unorthodox and overtly flamboyant.
Another aspect of a genius (to me) is, they make extremely difficult things look ridiculously simple. So much so that you might completely miss it when you see them perform. Only when you attempt to duplicate what they have done (or see others trying to duplicate them), you realize - "Whoa... hold on a second here..."

Agree with a lot of this. To me, genius is making something ridiculously tough look ridiculously easy, elevating it to almost an art form. When you look at how Messi plays football and Federer plays tennis, I got that same feeling from Sachin. The feeling you get when you are watching someone, and you say that they were born to grace the sport, that's genius!

 

[DrWolverine]

To me, genius is making something ridiculously tough look ridiculously easy, elevating it to almost an art form.

When you look at how Messi plays football and Federer plays tennis, I got that same feeling from Sachin.

I rate Sachin as the best batsman in the last 80 years but I felt it applied much better for Brian Lara.

Yes Sachin Tendulkar is a child prodigy who achieved everything possible in the sport and is a genius but he didn’t make it look easy.

 

[Thala_0710]

I rate Sachin as the best batsman in the last 80 years but I felt it applied much better for Brian Lara.

Yes Sachin Tendulkar is a child prodigy who achieved everything possible in the sport and is a genius but he didn’t make it look easy.

I guess it varies from person to person then. To me, noone made batting look more easy than Sachin did.

 

[sayon basak]

I rate Sachin as the best batsman in the last 80 years but I felt it applied much better for Brian Lara.

Yes Sachin Tendulkar is a child prodigy who achieved everything possible in the sport and is a genius but he didn’t make it look easy.

And you think Smith makes batting look easy.

 

[Johan]

Viv is Genius

 

[subshakerz]

I rate Sachin as the best batsman in the last 80 years but I felt it applied much better for Brian Lara.

Yes Sachin Tendulkar is a child prodigy who achieved everything possible in the sport and is a genius but he didn’t make it look easy.

Tendulkar is a master.

Lara is a genius.

 

[subshakerz]

Viv is Genius

Definitely.

 

[sayon basak]

Woakes is a God.

Garner for his batting.