sayon basak
International Captain
I mean, that's just your opinion and vast majority would disagree with you. Lara and Sachin are close enough.
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Warne vs Gavaskar
- Thread starter DrWolverine
- Start date
sayon basak
International Captain
Guess how? By the same era bullshit and Garbage bowler argument.
DrWolverine
International 12th Man
No one is slandering the legendary Len Hutton
Sunny faced much better bowlers and that’s a fact
Sunny faced much better bowlers and that’s a fact
HouHsiaoHsien
International Debutant
You have Gavaskar above Smith, Viv and Hutton?
DrWolverine
International 12th Man
I have Sunny above Hutton
Sunny and Viv are in the same tier - Two different batsmen who played different roles in the team.
Sunny and Viv are in the same tier - Two different batsmen who played different roles in the team.
Johan
International Regular
Hutton faced
Bill O Reilly — one of the GOAT spinners and perhaps the greatest bowler before Marshall, made 2 hundreds against him at the age of 23 and made a massive triple hundred.
1939 West Indies — made runs against Emanuel Martindale and Learie Constantine, again, both great bowlers
Ashes 1947 — made runs against Keith Miller (averages 23), Ray Lindwall (averages 22) and Toshack right after coming back from a 8 year hiatus due to the war, had to work on his technique due to the arm injury and was a part of a falling England getting destroyed every moment.
Ashew 1948 — made runs against the ATG attack of Lindwall/Miller/Johnson/Johnston while England once again lept falling apart over and over and over and over and over again.
New Zealand series 1949 — Jack Cowie was a gun bowler and Hutton scored against him, he averages 22 odd in First class for a reason and is considered a great by all the Kiwis of the time, runs against him matter especially since he bowled well in the series.
1950 West Indies series — lol, we are not gonna pretend that scoring runs against Alfred Valentine and Ramadhin is invalid on wet pitches in England of all places where every tom, dick, moby averaged less than 25 at the time, he made 202 while the rest of the team barely made 140.
1950-51 Ashes — obviously, against what I would consider the greatest bowling attack of all time alongside windies, in extreme bowler friendly conditions against Lindwall/Miller/Johnston/Johnson and Hutton averaged 88, next best averaged 43, Hutton made 533 runs, next best made 366 runs...batting against a much weaker english lineup that is, that should just tell you the conditions and attack.
1953 Ashes — same as previous ashes, but this time Benaud at place of Johnson, Hutton once again proved himself against an ATG attack combined with the even more hellish 50s England conditions.
1954 West Indies — again, Ramadhin and Valentine.
South Africa — now South Africa is interesting as they actually don't have bowlers I'm well read on but their actual bowling output is 35
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
guess what? England and India in the 80s were worse in term of output.
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Is it the bowlers or the pitches? well, doesn't REALLY matter, nobody says "well, all the runs he made against X and Y and Z should be discounted, let's remove all the runs Dravid has against New Zealand because boohoo they didn't have bowlers I know!" so I don't know why one should cry about south africa either.
now on Gavaskar, let's not pretend Gavaskar scored some ultra tough runs okay? and let's not pretend Sylvester ****ing Clarke the chucker is a more accomplished bowler than Ray Lindwall, he got slow dead pitches at home consistently, filled his pockets with hundreds on extreme flatties against lineups led by an aging Garry Sobers, a second string Windies in a much more batter friendly era, he did face more great pacers than Hutton but he did not perform against all of them, and trying to pretend that Hutton filled his pockets with easy runs while defending Gavaskar is the singlemost delusional thing I've seen on this site.
Johan
International Regular
and performed like Michael Atherton against half of them and that's also a fact.
Johan
International Regular
It's always the same mother****ing ******** argument, Hutton faced better bowlers than Smith on tougher pitches but let's pretend he farmed weaker bowlers
DrWolverine
International 12th Man
Martindale : Played a total of 10 Tests
Cowie : Played a total of 9 Tests
The only great fast bowlers Hutton faced are Australian legends like Miller & Lindwall.
Cowie : Played a total of 9 Tests
The only great fast bowlers Hutton faced are Australian legends like Miller & Lindwall.
Johan
International Regular
iirc Viv beat Smith in his own polls lol
Johan
International Regular
the same windies bowlers who put the second greatest of that era (Hammond) on the leash being scored against don't matter? their FC's record don't even exist?
you're delusional
sayon basak
International Captain
What about pitch condition though?
Coronis
International Coach
Nobody is? You’re the one bringing up guys like Constantine and Valentine as pluses and then shitting on Sylvester Clarke lol. Double standards much?Hutton faced
Bill O Reilly — one of the GOAT spinners and perhaps the greatest bowler before Marshall, made 2 hundreds against him at the age of 23 and made a massive triple hundred.
1939 West Indies — made runs against Emanuel Martindale and Learie Constantine, again, both great bowlers
Ashes 1947 — made runs against Keith Miller (averages 23), Ray Lindwall (averages 22) and Toshack right after coming back from a 8 year hiatus due to the war, had to work on his technique due to the arm injury and was a part of a falling England getting destroyed every moment.
Ashew 1948 — made runs against the ATG attack of Lindwall/Miller/Johnson/Johnston while England once again lept falling apart over and over and over and over and over again.
New Zealand series 1949 — Jack Cowie was a gun bowler and Hutton scored against him, he averages 22 odd in First class for a reason and is considered a great by all the Kiwis of the time, runs against him matter especially since he bowled well in the series.
1950 West Indies series — lol, we are not gonna pretend that scoring runs against Alfred Valentine and Ramadhin is invalid on wet pitches in England of all places where every tom, dick, moby averaged less than 25 at the time, he made 202 while the rest of the team barely made 140.
1950-51 Ashes — obviously, against what I would consider the greatest bowling attack of all time alongside windies, in extreme bowler friendly conditions against Lindwall/Miller/Johnston/Johnson and Hutton averaged 88, next best averaged 43, Hutton made 533 runs, next best made 366 runs...batting against a much weaker english lineup that is, that should just tell you the conditions and attack.
1953 Ashes — same as previous ashes, but this time Benaud at place of Johnson, Hutton once again proved himself against an ATG attack combined with the even more hellish 50s England conditions.
1954 West Indies — again, Ramadhin and Valentine.
South Africa — now South Africa is interesting as they actually don't have bowlers I'm well read on but their actual bowling output is 35
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
guess what? England and India in the 80s were worse in term of output.
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Is it the bowlers or the pitches? well, doesn't REALLY matter, nobody says "well, all the runs he made against X and Y and Z should be discounted, let's remove all the runs Dravid has against New Zealand because boohoo they didn't have bowlers I know!" so I don't know why one should cry about south africa either.
now on Gavaskar, let's not pretend Gavaskar scored some ultra tough runs okay? and let's not pretend Sylvester ****ing Clarke the chucker is a more accomplished bowler than Ray Lindwall, he got slow dead pitches at home consistently, filled his pockets with hundreds on extreme flatties against lineups led by an aging Garry Sobers, a second string Windies in a much more batter friendly era, he did face more great pacers than Hutton but he did not perform against all of them, and trying to pretend that Hutton filled his pockets with easy runs while defending Gavaskar is the singlemost delusional thing I've seen on this site.
Johan
International Regular
I just checked out Len Hutton’s centuries.
Except against Australia, there are really no recognisable bowlers in any of the teams he scored centuries against
"Recongnisable" bowlers, Constantine is very recongnisable, Valentine is recongnizable, so is Ramadhin, it's the same **** as the Hobbs and Hammond argument all over again, "bleh I don't know who X and Y is so runs against them obviously don't count!" same **** to try and discredit Hammond's runs against India even tho it was against Nissar and Amar Singh, same as the one to discredit Gary's record against India as well, as always, it gets annoying after a certain amount of uses.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
No I don't, but I won't bat and eye if someone does
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Johan
International Regular
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
****! I didn't know averaging 50+ against all WIndian pacers except Garner and Imran was Athertonesque!!!! We learn something knew everyday! Also, you can't be seriously saying Sylvester Clarke was worse than Manny Martindale or Learie Constantine or Jack Cowie???
Johan
International Regular
COME BACK WHEN YOU STOP THINKING IMRAN IS FROM WEST INDIES!!!