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Fred Trueman vs Joel Garner

Trueman vs Garner


  • Total voters
    23

DrWolverine

International Debutant
William Renshaw won 7 Wimbledon titles between 1881-1889. I am not rating him on par with Pete Sampras or Novak Djokovic who also won 7 Wimbledon titles.

Laurence Doherty won 5 Wimbledon titles between 1902-1906 but I am not rating him on the same level as Borg who won between 1976-1980.
 

sayon basak

International Captain
Nobody is demanding or even demeaning Hobbs. Hobbs was the best batsman of his era and I agree with it.

Cricket in 1900s was its infancy and barely played by 2 nations. So I am not sure how competitive the sport was at that time.
It's okay.


The thread was about Garner vs Trueman. Guess we should start discussing that again. Enough of this era bashing.
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
William Renshaw won 7 Wimbledon titles between 1881-1889. I am not rating him on par with Pete Sampras or Novak Djokovic who also won 7 Wimbledon titles.

Laurence Doherty won 5 Wimbledon titles between 1902-1906 but I am not rating him on the same level as Borg who won between 1976-1980.
Bobby Fischer won world chess championship in 1971 but chess has evolved thus most modern grandmasters would likely beat him, even someone like Nepo from today is probably too much for Fischer

Thus Viv Richards is an inferior Batsmen to Joe Root.
 

Patience and Accuracy+Gut

State Vice-Captain
Bobby Fischer won world chess championship in 1971 but chess has evolved thus most modern grandmasters would likely beat him, even someone like Nepo from today is probably too much for Fischer

Thus Viv Richards is an inferior Batsmen to Joe Root.
Fischer at his peak was more dominant than Viv. And as much as I love Fischer he wouldn’t stand a chance against any of the top 10 today. Probably not even top 20. Even Kasporav at his peak transported right now wouldn’t be anywhere near the force he was. Probably not a top 10 tbh.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
You can say you disagree with the choice, can't say he doesn't qualify. He played test cricket.

As I said, I select based on who would I trust to put on a pitch today who would succeed. And of course traits / ability.

I'm work for a financial institution and in interviews we more look for behavioral competencies over functional ones. Barry has every single intangible that I'm looking for, and I know he would succeed.

With regards to confidence, it doesn't require any. Including his tests, WSC, and the ROW series he averaged 62.

In non test matches including the best bowlers of his era he averaged 58.

In fc matches vs touring test teams he averaged 75.

You're the contemporary peer ratings guy, in real time from 70 - 76 he was seen as the best bat in the world.

Lillee rates him with Sobers and Viv. Thompson rated him at least the equal of Chappell who he rates as the best in the era. He out both to the sword.

Pollock and Procter both called him the best batsman they've ever seen, Pollock rating him along with Sobers.

He made the Cricinfo 2nd team and the Roar though enough of him to select him in their XI to face the Wisden selections. Crowe also selects him in his second all time team.

An opener with a technique and ability to handle the moving ball who can accelerate an innings? That doesn't exist.

300 runs in a day, 9 hundreds before lunch, who else can do that? Triple hundred off Lillee, McKenzie and Lock, doubles off of Snow and Procter.

I know we have to disagree about everything, but this doesn't call for confidence.

Apologies for the long response.
Well that's all well and good but bottomline you need a minimum international career sample to qualify for ATG consideration, WSC is fine as supporting evidence if he had international numbers (outside of one solo series) they could be added to.

This should be a redline otherwise we muddy the waters. Peer rating never replaced record for me.
 

kyear2

International Coach
I like how some people just like to ignore things that don't support their own ideology.
Ok, let me be clear.

We can all see these things differently.

It's also not a matter of disrespecting what Hobbs have done, the gentleman was a giant, the original Master and the best of his era and still top 5.

We all also select these teams differently, me more than most...

It infuriates me when people talk about all aspects of swlection and never factor in who will be taking the edges or in some scenarios if the keeper is even capable.

We're allowed to not have to see things the same way.
 

Johan

International Vice-Captain
Fischer at his peak was more dominant than Viv. And as much as I love Fischer he wouldn’t stand a chance against any of the top 10 today. Probably not even top 20. Even Kasporav at his peak transported right now wouldn’t be anywhere near the force he was. Probably not a top 10 tbh.
Yeah.

following same game evolution logic, Root and Wiliiamson are above Viv and Sunny, nice job guys @DrWolverine @subshakerz
 

kyear2

International Coach
Peers rated Hobbs quite high. Just quoting some players doesn't prove anything. His FC stats aren't out of the world impressive.
Who said Hobbs wasn't rated highly?

Didn't quite some players, I quoted the ones who played against and bowled to him.

I also provided numbers against the best competition of his time.

And all of them were quite impressive.
 

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