Fred Trueman vs Joel Garner

[kyear2]

He was way too exceptional in South Africa as well.

I don't even factor them into his stats.

They were below minnow level and factored heavily into his legacy.and numbers.

But again, I rate him with the guys from his era.

 

[sayon basak]

Can't compare skill vs skill, you compare "skill vs contemporaries" vs "skill vs contemporaries". Was Hobbs an even better player in his era compared to Smith in his?

(Hint: he was.)

This.

 

[sayon basak]

"But he didn't score a single run against Brazil, Myanmar or Mozambique!! How can you call him one of the best?? He has a horrible record against Bangladesh as well!"

(I'm gonna pretend like I'm offended.)

 

[capt_Luffy]

I don't even factor them into his stats.

They were below minnow level and factored heavily into his legacy.and numbers.

But again, I rate him with the guys from his era.

You will be wrong to that, as SA won the previous two home series vs England. While they were a weak team battingwise, they as well were far from minnows. And his Australia numbers are Great as well, since he played in his fair share of high scorers there. And like, he played his fair share with Hobbs. He isn't ancient like Grace.

 

[kyear2]

Problem with Lindwall is that his whole career and all his big serieses came in extremely low scoring games, even moreso than Barnes (Golden Era Aus was pretty alright for batting) and still his numbers don't even come close to Barnes

Barnes numbers aren't that great. When you only play 2 teams and maul one, it just has a bigger impact.

 

[sayon basak]

My man used to bowl drifting offies and leggies before it was even a thing.

 

[kyear2]

I know it’s blasphemy to say this but sometimes I am not really sure about Jack Hobbs as well even though he was the best batsman before Bradman.

How can we even compare to a modern day great like Steven Smith who has proved himself in a professional era in multiple countries against better bowlers?

I have Hobbs as great rather than good. Don't know how he would compare to modern day batsmen and face modern attacks.

My cut off is early 30's. From there I've seen enough to consider the techniques, rules and players to be of modern standard.

 

[sayon basak]

Barnes numbers aren't that great.

Averaging 21.58 at a WPM of 5+ isn't great?

 

[Johan]

what makes south africa minnow level tho?

Beat England 4-1 1906, Beat England against 3-2 in 1910

 

[sayon basak]

what makes south africa minnow level tho?

Beat England 4-1 1906, Beat England against 3-2 in 1910

Nothing.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Averaging 21.58 at a WPM of 5+ isn't great?

WPM of 6

 

[sayon basak]

WPM of 6

Was talking about his matches vs Australia.

 

[sayon basak]

I have Hobbs as great rather than good. Don't know how he would compare to modern day batsmen and face modern attacks.

My cut off is early 30's. From there I've seen enough to consider the techniques, rules and players to be of modern standard.

Then how do you rate Hobbs as a great one?

 

[DrWolverine]

I have Hobbs as great rather than good. Don't know how he would compare to modern day batsmen and face modern attacks.

My cut off is early 30's. From there I've seen enough to consider the techniques, rules and players to be of modern standard.

Spofforth. Lohmann. Barnes. Hobbs. Sutcliffe.

Just impossible to know how they would do against modern attacks and can’t be compared.

 

[Johan]

Ok, Did my research, Statistically the only minnows I can find are 30s India and New Zealand, 2000s Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, 80s Sri Lanka and MAYBE pre Hadlee New Zealand but eh, won't go that far.

and obviously current Ireland and Zim.

 

[DrWolverine]

Then how do you rate Hobbs as a great one?

Jack Hobbs was the greatest batsman before 1930 and one has to give him credit for that.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Was talking about his matches vs Australia.

And after all that, we have to consider Barnes missed some of his best years because he played in the Lancashire League as it paid better and Lord Hawke hated him. Played 4 matches in 1902 when he was 28; then again in 1907, when he was already 34 and played till 41.....

 

[capt_Luffy]

Ok, Did my research, Statistically the only minnows I can find are 30s India and New Zealand, 2000s Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, 80s Sri Lanka and MAYBE pre Hadlee New Zealand but eh, won't go that far.

and obviously current Ireland and Zim.

Hey 30s India played a Grand total of 2 series, one away. Merchant, Nayudu, Amar Singh, Nissar; it was an alright team for the era. Had England quite by the collar in the first match they played as well.

 

[sayon basak]

Jack Hobbs was the greatest batsman before 1930 and one has to give him credit for that.

The same thing is true for Barnes, innit?

 

[Johan]

Spofforth. Lohmann. Barnes. Hobbs. Sutcliffe.

Just impossible to know how they would do against modern attacks and can’t be compared.

people who saw from Hammond to Gavaskar and Richards did not remotely believe Gavaskar and Richards were another level whatsoever, going by view of people more knowledgeable than us on this matter, the older era batters would've done just fine, like, nobody thinks Viv today would not be great right?