Dennis Lillee vs Fred Trueman

[Johan]

I would have given you a Love icon, Peter, but I thought it inconsistent with the batsmen suffering pain!

dw, I did it.

 

[centurymaker]

we're taking legs off the next year seemingly in number of tests, it's more likely he's get 13-14 tests a year in 2026 and 2027 (he'll def play until then), unless he falls off (unlikely) or decides that he is done if he has a big 2025 Ashes (probable), he should get there

England have
2025 : 11 Tests (1 Zim, 5 Ind, 5 Aus)
2026 : 9 Tests ( 3 NZ, 3 Pak, 3 SA)
2027 : 8 Tests ( 2 Ban, 1 Aus, 5 Aus)

28 Tests by end of 2027.


And there won't be able to add any extra test series as the two teams (WI & SL) who they're not playing in the next wtc cycle have their Ftps totally filled out in 2026/27. England can only add one test against Ireland before Ashes 2027. Thats it. Year 2028 is when they'll likely play a lot again, 14 tests or 17 tests depending on timing of away series.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

England have
2025 : 11 Tests (1 Zim, 5 Ind, 5 Aus)
2026 : 9 Tests ( 3 NZ, 3 Pak, 3 SA)
2027 : 7 Tests ( 2 Ban, 5 Aus)

27 Tests by end of 2027.


And there won't be able to add any extra test series as the two teams (WI & SL) who they're not playing in the next wtc cycle have their Ftps totally filled out in 2026/27. England can only add one test against Ireland before Ashes 2027. Thats it. Year 2028 is when they'll likely play a lot again, 14 tests or 17 tests depending on timing of away series.

There’s also one test in Australia in 2027 I think

 

[centurymaker]

So Root can't reach the most test runs until towards the end of 2028 English home season. If he has a small lean patch before, then it won't be until 2028/29.

 

[centurymaker]

There’s also one test in Australia in 2027 I think

Oh yeah good spotting.

 

[Johan]

England have
2025 : 11 Tests (1 Zim, 5 Ind, 5 Aus)
2026 : 9 Tests ( 3 NZ, 3 Pak, 3 SA)
2027 : 8 Tests ( 2 Ban, 1 Aus, 5 Aus)

28 Tests by end of 2027.


And there won't be able to add any extra test series as the two teams (WI & SL) who they're not playing in the next wtc cycle have their Ftps totally filled out in 2026/27. England can only add one test against Ireland before Ashes 2027. Thats it. Year 2028 is when they'll likely play a lot again, 14 tests or 17 tests depending on timing of away series.

let's wait and see

England played 17 tests this year, 14 in 2022 and 21, but less in 2022, unless we're completely reworking the amount of tests we play for whatever reason there should be atleast 30-35 tests by end of 2027, I think Root will play out until a bit after 2027 Ashes if he's close to the record anyway.

I don't really see a complete drop off from 15 tests a year to 8-9

 

[PlayerComparisons]

It depends on how well he can sustain his form. He’s already 34 and will likely play till 37. It’s not impossible that he declines and fall short of the record.

Ponting and Dravid were averaging like 57 at 34 and then dropped to 52. Smith was averaging 60 at 34 and will likely drop to below 55.

 

[Johan]

Huh...why am I getting Dejavu here

 

[PlayerComparisons]

He should get to 15k though unless he retires very early

 

[centurymaker]

let's wait and see

England played 17 tests this year, 14 in 2022 and 21, but less in 2023, unless we're completely reworking the amount of tests we play for whatever reason there should be atleast 30-35 tests by end of 2027, I think Root will play out until a bit after 2027 Ashes if he's close to the record anyway.

I don't really see a complete drop off from 15 tests a year to 8-9

Covid was the reason they had to reschedule so many tests and series in 2021 and 2022.

England won't be playing any "extra" test series till 2027. The calendar doesn't allow it either.

 

[Johan]

Covid was the reason they had to reschedule so many tests and series in 2021 and 2022.

England won't be playing any "extra" test series till 2027. The calendar doesn't allow it either.

Doesn't really explain why England played 10+ every year before COVID but okay, like I said, we'll see in time.

 

[centurymaker]

England was suppose to tour India in 2020, they toured in 2021.

Then they asked NZ to come over in 2021 to help them cover their losses from Covid.

 

[centurymaker]

Doesn't really explain why England played 10+ every year before COVID but okay, like I said, we'll see in time.

Because there was no WTC before covid. Now every team doesn't play every single team home and away in every four year period.

You play 6 series every 2 years

 

[centurymaker]

And England can still do 10+ tests every calendar year. It's all about the timing of series. England every two years have-

5 vs Ind
5 vs Aus
+
Four test series of upto 3 Tests each.

= 22 tests every 2 years

The reason they have fewer in the coming calendar years is because they already played out more series in 2024 and will play out more in 2028.

If they had played the last series vs NZ in early 2025 and toured India end of 2027 instead of early 2028, then their 'calendar year' number of tests (2025-2027) would have looked big again.

 

[kyear2]

No, it isn't remotely possible. Only to those suffering flashbacks of crazy thoughts they had more than a decade ago when they harboured doubts of Hadlee being even a top-10 Test bowler:

from http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/thr...owlers-of-all-time.32808/page-28#post-3232101:

View attachment 43570

I can't think of one other fast bowler in cricket history who carried his country so brilliantly like Hadlee did for 14 years (1976-90). So in a sense, he is more proven than any other fast bowler in history. It's bizarre that you seem to be questioning him more than Barry Richards who played a total of four Tests spanning something like 47 days! What is your thinking based on? Peer review? Let me sum up human evaluation for you even by those who should know better (but don't):

Hadlee was a NZer: strike one.

Hadlee wasn't express, he often relied upon subtle variations: strike two.

Hadlee was a serious and calculating individual: strike three.

Three strikes and you're out of consideration by many as the greatest ever (even though you might be the greatest ever).

I remember years ago reading something Michael Holding said about not regarding Hadlee as a great bowler but rather, as a great cricketer. I didn't think, "Well, Holding was a great fast bowler therefore I should listen to what he has to say". Instead, I correctly assessed his opinion as crap and dismissed it. Earlier this year, Ponting was talking some nonsense about how Williamson would retire as NZ's greatest cricketer (simply on the basis of accumulation). I didn't think, "Well, Ponting was a great batsman therefore I should listen to what he has to say". Instead, I thought, correctly, "What a moron!". As an Aussie, Ponting should have known that Hadlee was the best-performing visiting bowler to Australia EVER, and that against Australia, all Williamson has been able to do is average in the 30s. Which made me hold Ponting's opinion in even more contempt.

To start off I'm not questioning him, I have him 3rd among fast bowlers.
What I'm asking is why isn't that nearly a popular option. That's it.

Your first two reasons I can go with, don't get the 3rd.

But no, not questioning Hadlee.

 

[Johan]

I don't get how one doesn't like Trueman (the Cricketer) smh CW

 

[kyear2]

13000 runs, mostly in bowling era, 51 avg while batting with a batting lineup of nobodies on top bar a declining Cook for the first 1/4 of his career, personally think he has a very strong case.

Not arguing his case, but if he isn't one now, a milestone wouldn't make him one. But as you said, he's already one for you, and yeah, he has way better case than Anderson.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I don't get how one doesn't like Trueman (the Cricketer) smh CW

He’s really no worse than Lillee but people act like there’s a significant difference between them

 

[Johan]

He’s really no worse than Lillee but people act like there’s a significant difference between them

Yeah about the same for me too honestly, pretty equal.

 

[kyear2]

I would have given you a Love icon, Peter, but I thought it inconsistent with the batsmen suffering pain!

Meh.

Love icon that ****, lol