Kapil Dev vs Ricky Ponting

[h_hurricane]

Sobers in particular, and WI cricketers in general continue to be over-rated here.

 

[Prince EWS]

Kapil would probably be a useless bits and pieces cricketer a hypothetical evel above actual Tests - like imaginary time travelling ATG contests or something - and kyear thinks about cricket a lot in those terms which is why he doesn't rate him in these kind of comparisons, but in actual Tests I think his value was pretty similar to Ponting's.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Kapil would probably be a useless bits and pieces cricketer a hypothetical evel above actual Tests - like imaginary time travelling ATG contests or something - and kyear thinks about cricket a lot in those terms which is why he doesn't rate him in these kind of comparisons, but in actual Tests I think his value was pretty similar to Ponting's.

I mean, Ponting would be pretty useless in those outside Australia too.....

 

[kyear2]

Its not close.

Kapil easily better.

Ponting is a 50 avg quality batsman + ATG fielder

Kapil is very good bowler equivalent of 45 avg batsman + an actual 30+ avg batsman + ATG fielder.


Btw
Wisden 5 cricketers of century votes
Botham 9
Kapil 5
Walsh 0

There goes your reputation theory.

So bit by bit.

A 30 bowling average is equivalent to a 45 average batsman? God no. What the actual ****, no. A 30 average bowler, or Lee, is the weak link of an attack.
A 30 averaging batsman is a sub test standard batsman.

How does that compare to an ATG test batsman, who at one (brief) point considered to be in the contention for the best since Bradman?

And re the Wisden cricketer of the century, you do know that there were 100 voters yeah? Getting 5 isn't quite the flex you seem to think that it is.

 

[capt_Luffy]

So bit by bit.

A 30 bowling average is equivalent to a 45 average batsman? God no. What the actual ****, no. A 30 average bowler, or Lee, is the weak link of an attack.
A 30 averaging batsman is a sub test standard batsman.

How does that compare to an ATG test batsman, who at one (brief) point considered to be in the contention for the best since Bradman?

And re the Wisden cricketer of the century, you do know that there were 100 voters yeah? Getting 5 isn't quite the flex you seem to think that it is.

So Lance Gibbs can be passed off a weakling I take??

5 votes among the Top 5?? You would be eating that **** up, never shutting up for Barry Richards.

 

[ataraxia]

A 30 average bowler, or Lee, is the weak link of an attack.

What planet are you on? 30-average bowlers have consistently been above average since the 1950s.

 

[kyear2]

Sobers in particular, and WI cricketers in general continue to be over-rated here.

And Kapil and quite a few others aren't?

How is Sober's over rated btw, would love to hear this one.

And which others are over rated? With the 2 WI posters btw.

 

[kyear2]

Kapil would probably be a useless bits and pieces cricketer a hypothetical evel above actual Tests - like imaginary time travelling ATG contests or something - and kyear thinks about cricket a lot in those terms which is why he doesn't rate him in these kind of comparisons, but in actual Tests I think his value was pretty similar to Ponting's.

I'm thinking about it in terms of actual tests. Ponting touched peaks that but a handful of batsmen have.

Yes, I would take a specialist over a bit of both type of player, nothing to do with hypothetical levels of anything. Specialists are more consistent match winners and contributors, always have been.

The choice is between an ATG no. 3 and a bowler who might struggle to make this current Aussie attack. But because he was a below test standard bat as well, I'm taking him over one of the greats at a pivotal batting position?

 

[Bolo.]

The argument was to pick Kapil at the expense of Ponting, and that's what would be a non starter.

Also not sure which you meant, but if we're talking Kapil vs Walsh, I would go Walsh. Yeah you lose out on the batting, but one was a legitimate great of the game as bowler, I don't believe Kapil was.

You said this:

I struggle to think of a scenario where I select Dev for a team over someone of the quality of a Ponting.

I gave you the examples of their teams. Not sure what you are trying to say in your most recent post.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm thinking about it in terms of actual tests. Ponting touched peaks that but a handful of batsmen have.

Yes, I would take a specialist over a bit of both type of player, nothing to do with hypothetical levels of anything. Specialists are more consistent match winners and contributors, always have been.

The choice is between an ATG no. 3 and a bowler who might struggle to make this current Aussie attack. But because he was a below test standard bat as well, I'm taking him over one of the greats at a pivotal batting position?

Kapil will struggle as much to make the current Australian attack as Ponting will. You downplaying Kapil has been turned more and more pathetic by each of your posts.

 

[kyear2]

So Lance Gibbs can be passed off a weakling I take??

5 votes among the Top 5?? You would be eating that **** up, never shutting up for Barry Richards.

You're comparing a pre DRS spinner to a pacer in the pacer era?

You do know how ridiculous that is.

Of the 4 all rounders of that era, he was easily 4th. He wasn't close to comparable with Imran or Hadlee as a bowler. Hell, wasn't even close to Procter in quality.

 

[BazBall21]

Kapil's overseas batting average never got within 6 runs of his overseas bowling average. Yes there's context etc, but you can only go so far with someone who has that production. I think he fulfilled his potential with the ball. Batting wise perhaps not, but that is frequently the case with players who are pretty much all out attack. It's why I find Pant's consistency impressive (I know he's a much better bat than Kapil).

Dev gets a lot of points for sustaining solidity of performance for so long as a seam bowling all rounder, but he was never at the same table as Ponting from 1999-2008 imho.

 

[capt_Luffy]

You're comparing a pre DRS spinner to a pacer in the pacer era?

You do know how ridiculous that is.

Of the 4 all rounders of that era, he was easily 4th. He wasn't close to comparable with Imran or Hadlee as a bowler. Hell, wasn't even close to Procter in quality.

I am comparing a man who played matches in pre covers England with a pacer who played with 80s India as home ground. Yes, I infact am.

It's as ridiculous as you suggesting Kapil's value was of Brett Lee. So MoYo was better than Viv, right?? Averaged 2 runs more afterall.

Yes he was the 4th. And yes, he was one of the 4 of the 4 all-rounders era.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Kapil's overseas batting average never got within 6 runs of his overseas bowling average. Yes there's context etc, but you can only go so far with someone who has that production. I think he fulfilled his potential with the ball. Batting wise perhaps not, but that is frequently the case with players who are pretty much all out attack. It's why I find Pant's consistency impressive (I know he's a much better bat than Kapil).

Dev gets a lot of points for sustaining solidity of performance for so long as a seam bowling all rounder, but he was never at the same table as Ponting from 1999-2008 imho.

Imho, he doesn't needs to be on that table to be as valuable or have a better career. Root never reached the highs Kohli did between 2014-19; but is a better bat for instance.

 

[BazBall21]

Imho, he doesn't needs to be on that table to be as valuable or have a better career. Root never reached the highs Kohli did between 2014-19; but is a better bat for instance.

Root has the raw production though. It's marquee performances away from home that lets him down a bit.

Kapil has longevity, but didn't quite hit the production levels in terms of his prime or as a whole imo for him v Ponting to be a proper discussion.

 

[Johan]

Botham vs Ponting would be interesting.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Root has the raw production though. It's marquee performances away from home that lets him down a bit.

Kapil has longevity, but didn't quite hit the production levels in terms of his prime or as a whole imo for him v Ponting to be a proper discussion.

I will disagree. Kapil's numbers against the two best teams (WI and Australia) are immaculate. He wasn't the most consistent, but as a whole I think has a strong enough case over Ponting.

 

[kyear2]

Root has the raw production though. It's marquee performances away from home that lets him down a bit.

Kapil has longevity, but didn't quite hit the production levels in terms of his prime or as a whole imo for him v Ponting to be a proper discussion.

I don't get how this is a discussion tbh.

But to be fair I didn't get it for Chappell either.

But there's an obvious trend, so I'm just leaving this alone.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Tbf can understand that. None here ever got how Sobers vs Don was a discussion......

 

[DrWolverine]

Tbf can understand that. None here ever got how Sobers vs Don was a discussion......

Don vs anyone is not a discussion.