Viv vs Lara vs Smith: Who has the best series performances?

[subshakerz]

How can you be certain that Smith batted without pressure in 2017? Are you implying that winning in Australia in 79 for Windies was bigger than winning in India for Aus? Let's not forget that adapting to Australian conditions for a West Indian batsman is relatively easier (due to similar pitches at home) than it is for Aussie batsmen to adapt to slow turning Indian wickets.

Besides, I sense a bias here where scoring against top fast bowling attacks is rated higher than scoring against top spin attacks. In that case Smith's 2019 Ashes should be ranked above Lara in SL 2001.

I think you may be right that Smith 2017 may be underrated. There hasn't been a batting effort close to that against Ashwin Jadeja.

Vivs effort in 79 actually did help win it for WI though.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think you may be right that Smith 2017 may be underrated. There hasn't been a batting effort close to that against Ashwin Jadeja.

Vivs effort in 79 actually did help win it for WI though.

Yeah because WI had much better bowling also. And 2017 Australia was the closest any team had came to beating India at home in their dominant phase, largely based off the runs of a single player.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah because WI had much better bowling also. And 2017 Australia was the closest any team had came to beating India at home in their dominant phase, largely based off the runs of a single player.

Do you rate Smith 2017 over Smith 2019?

 

[OverratedSanity]

On not just the run volume, but the quality of the innings, Smith in 2019 was insane. The first innings at Edgbaston and the 200 and 80odd were incredible innings where it looked like he was batting on a completely different pitch to his teammates. In 76, Viv had Greenidge and Fredricks as openers both having very big series.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Do you rate Smith 2017 over Smith 2019?

Around equal really, 2019 was extremely high quality batting.

 

[subshakerz]

On not just the run volume, but the quality of the innings, Smith in 2019 was insane. The first innings at Edgbaston and the 200 and 80odd were incredible innings where it looked like he was batting on a completely different pitch to his teammates. In 76, Viv had Greenidge and Fredricks as openers both having very big series.

Marnus had a good series in 2019 but I grant your point that Smith was far ahead of others in how comfortably he batted.

The kicker for me as always was just Viv being able to achieve a super high scoring rate against a quality attack throughout a series ahead of his time.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

How can you be certain that Smith batted without pressure in 2017? Are you implying that winning in Australia in 79 for Windies was bigger than winning in India for Aus? Let's not forget that adapting to Australian conditions for a West Indian batsman is relatively easier (due to similar pitches at home) than it is for Aussie batsmen to adapt to slow turning Indian wickets.

Besides, I sense a bias here where scoring against top fast bowling attacks is rated higher than scoring against top spin attacks. In that case Smith's 2019 Ashes should be ranked above Lara in SL 2001.

No it is an ATG series and I mean Smith’s hundred at Pune after a big first innings lead. And the rest of pitches apart from Pune where Smith scored weren’t that tough

 

[capt_Luffy]

No it is an ATG series and I mean Smith’s hundred at Pune after a big first innings lead. And the rest of pitches apart from Pune where Smith scored weren’t that tough

That was the series where India dealt out pitches the most similar to what Subs thinks we do always.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

That was the series where India dealt out pitches the most similar to what Subs thinks we do always.

It gets a little overrated, but is an ATG series

 

[capt_Luffy]

It gets a little overrated, but is an ATG series

Let's agree to disagree then. It's the best series in India by any tourist by far and I do think Ashwin and Jadeja are better than Lillee and Thomson at home decisively.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Let's agree to disagree then. It's the best series in India by any tourist by far and I do think Ashwin and Jadeja are better than Lillee and Thomson at home decisively.

You had Lillee, Thomson and Hogg(one of the best in the world), in some fast pitches. Viv didn’t fail in any innings unlike Smith, scored faster. And Viv’s 1979 in Aus is the best series by a touring batter there

 

[capt_Luffy]

You had Lillee, Thomson and Hogg(one of the best in the world), in some fast pitches. Viv didn’t fail in any innings unlike Smith, scored faster. And Viv’s 1979 in Aus is the best series by a touring batter there

Viv also had much more support though and personally don't think scoring faster is that important here.

 

[subshakerz]

Viv also had much more support though and personally don't think scoring faster is that important here.

I disagree about the scoring rate.

It was ahead of his era. As a batting achievement, it's incredibly difficult to do so against a top attack over an entire series.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I disagree about the scoring rate.

It was ahead of his era. As a batting achievement, it's incredibly difficult to do so against a top attack over an entire series.

I disagree with your disagreement. Yes, it was ahead of its time; but don't necessarily think the advancement in SR has been a good change for the sport.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Don't think SR argument holds any weight in general but especially here when Smith scored at a 65 SR in 2019 ashes anyway which is pretty fast. And on SC pitches occupying time to enable your team to bowl later when the pitch crumbles is a very legit winning MO.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Viv also had much more support though and personally don't think scoring faster is that important here.

But none of them scored even near Viv. The next highest scorer in Viv’s team was half of what he scored and after playing one more match. It was comparative to what Renshaw scored. I also think the Pune hundred was chancy(and scored after a massive first innings lead), and the Ranchi hundred was on a pancake. It’s an ATG series, but for Viv 1979 slightly better and that should not be not an irrational opinion.

 

[capt_Luffy]

But none of them scored even near Viv. The next highest scorer in Viv’s team was half of what he scored and after playing one more match. It was comparative to what Renshaw scored. I also think the Pune hundred was chancy(and scored after a massive first innings lead), and the Ranchi hundred was on a pancake. It’s an ATG series, but for Viv 1979 slightly better and that should not be not an irrational opinion.

Again, who called it an "irrational" opinion??

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Again, who called it an "irrational" opinion??

Fair. Just clarifying

 

[Kirkut]

Let's agree to disagree then. It's the best series in India by any tourist by far and I do think Ashwin and Jadeja are better than Lillee and Thomson at home decisively.

I think you may be right that Smith 2017 may be underrated. There hasn't been a batting effort close to that against Ashwin Jadeja.

Vivs effort in 79 actually did help win it for WI though.

Are we pretending that the recent NZ series never happened?

Anyways, ignoring the horror show that just concluded, I do agree with the above.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Are we pretending that the recent NZ series never happened?

Anyways, ignoring the horror show that just concluded, I do agree with the above.

NZ what???? I don't get you.