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Viv vs Lara vs Smith: Who has the best series performances?

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
He was pretty **** in that series. 2 wickets @62 and forced to leave the ground pretty much means he wasn't fit and not bowling really well. Past form isn't really important here. You can look at the previous Bangladesh series and say NZ played Ashwin brilliantly, while the more of the truth is he bowled pathetic. And like on the story, if being struck around in 3 innings and mostly in a single series breaks a bowler; they are made of ceramic and should not play any cricket.

But then again, it was Hogg......
I don’t completely agree here, but fair. He was simultaneously bowling brilliantly against England in the ODIs. Maybe he was neutralised by the WI batters to a great extent. Still I feel it was an amazing attack with Dymock and Pascoe as well(and Thomson only tailed off post 1980, till 1979-80, he was still bowling well and was fast(obviously not peak)).
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
I don’t completely agree here, but fair. He was simultaneously bowling brilliantly against England in the ODIs. Maybe he was neutralised by the WI batters to a great extent. Still I feel it was an amazing attack with Dymock and Pascoe as well(and Thomson only tailed off post 1980, till 1979-80, he was still bowling well and was fast(obviously not peak)).
As I said, it was a pretty great attack but looked much better on paper than reality. Even Lillee averaged 30+ there. You previously said Viv was the difference to which I disagree (not saying Viv wasn't the best player there by a huge margin), it was the pace attack as Marshall, Garner and Holding totally owned Australia. That series wasn't close but proper WI dominance in all the 3 matches.
 

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
As I said, it was a pretty great attack but looked much better on paper than reality. Even Lillee averaged 30+ there. You previously said Viv was the difference to which I disagree (not saying Viv wasn't the best player there by a huge margin), it was the pace attack as Marshall, Garner and Holding totally owned Australia. That series wasn't close but proper WI dominance in all the 3 matches.
Lillee averaging 30 plus was more to WI dominance as he was bowling well in that series by all accounts.
 

Coronis

International Coach
As I said, it was a pretty great attack but looked much better on paper than reality. Even Lillee averaged 30+ there. You previously said Viv was the difference to which I disagree (not saying Viv wasn't the best player there by a huge margin), it was the pace attack as Marshall, Garner and Holding totally owned Australia. That series wasn't close but proper WI dominance in all the 3 matches.
Making a bowler perform poorly means the attack sucked. That’s a new one.
 

Coronis

International Coach
Can't it be that because the bowler performed poorly the opposition dominated?? Like Ashwin/Bumrah in the recent NZ series.
It can be either. I’m curious as to why you would automatically assume its one. I’d still say even if the bowler is having an off series, if they were on form prior and after, a large portion of credit should go towards the batsmen they were facing.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
It can be either. I’m curious as to why you would automatically assume its one. I’d still say even if the bowler is having an off series, if they were on form prior and after, a large portion of credit should go towards the batsmen they were facing.
When did I exactly said Viv doesn't deserves credit for that series, or any other WI bat. I would rate that series ahead of both of Smith's. Just that the Aussie attack seemed way better than their returns suggests. And the fact I, alongside probably most others, would rate that series even higher had Lillee averaged 20 odd and dominated the WI batters except Viv.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Not according to the Wisden, which describes Lillee with less pace but more clever as a bowler in that series.
Doesn't really have the results to back him up completely there. Not only Viv, but WI batting unit as a whole did quite well vs Australia. And like, saying the series would be rated higher had Lillee averaged 10 runs less shan't be controversial at all.
 

HouHsiaoHsien

International Debutant
When did I exactly said Viv doesn't deserves credit for that series, or any other WI bat. I would rate that series ahead of both of Smith's. Just that the Aussie attack seemed way better than their returns suggests. And the fact I, alongside probably most others, would rate that series even higher had Lillee averaged 20 odd and dominated the WI batters except Viv.
As soon as you said that, I didn’t feel any need to debate further
 

pardus

U19 12th Man
Personally I put Lara's 2003, 500+ run series performance against Aus (533 runs in a 4 match series) on par with his much more famous 99 series performance against the same Aus team.

While the 1999 series was almost like a God-scripted "Rise from the Ashes" story from Lara's perspective, I felt he was not 100% fit, still struggling with the persistent hamstring injury. He gave way too many chances while batting (too many for my liking).
It was more of a phenomenal mind-over-matter performance from Lara in 1999, he pretty much collapsed in the ODI series that followed immediately.

In 2003 series, I felt Lara batted with tighter technique. He looked fitter, gave fewer chances, even when he took the Aussie fast bowlers head-on.

Brett Lee really threw the kitchen sink at Lara in that series, but Lara answered fire with fire. Their battles were magnificent to watch, with both having their moments of superiority.
It started on the very first day of the Test series itself, from Lee's first delivery to Lara, and with the first runs that Lara scored in the series - a magnificent, aggressive square cut boundary off a 92 mph Lee missile.

I still remember in the last Test in Antigua, it was a green wicket, Aus were bowled out for just 240 in their first innings, and in the West Indies first innings, when Lara walked into bat, Steve Waugh set the field just for fast, short-pitched bowling.
Brett Lee charged in, coming around the wicket, and Lara square cut the very first delivery he faced over point for a 6.
You just don't see that often in Test match cricket, a great batsman hitting an express fast bowler for a 6 on the first delivery he faces.
It was incredible theater.

Starting from that 2003 Aus series, till the end of his career, Lara finally worked on his fitness, overcoming the long persisting hamstring injury that plagued him for several years before that, and for the final 4 years of his career, he quickly regained back the same remarkable consistency that he showed in the first 5 years of his Test career.
 

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