Thala_0710
First Class Debutant
Surprised Murali isn't in the list
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
He appeared in 7 teams, McGrath in 8.
Laker actually received 12 votes so makes the 2nd XI instead of Gibbs.
Murali was picked by Colin Croft, Ntini, Ranatunga, Saqlain Mushtaq, Trescothick, Wasim Akram and Zaheer Abbas.
kyear2
International Coach
First let me clarify. I rate him a hair above Sunny, and that's based purely on what I think is the most important aspect of a opening batsman's job.
I also don't rate Barry purely on how writers or other players rated him, though admittedly way more the latter. It's based on when I started watching him (more on the why later), what he did and how he did it. I use the writers and the XIs because for some it lends credibility.
What did solidify my opinion, really to the point that, for the first time I'm actually happy with the overall balance and personnel of my XI, are the numbers presented by pererhrt and Coronis, especially the former. He was superb against the best of the very best.
It's very similar to my selection of Wasim. It started with is there a reason he's being selected, then I watched and contextualized. There's also a genius about both players and they both bringing something to the table that no one else does.
And most importantly I'm not trying to justify anything. Like above I would explain why I prefer him, but I don't have to justify any opinion I have.
I prefer him because, damn could he bat. Period. There's very few batsmen who could make Lillee, especially in his prime, look ordinary, he was one of the 3.
kyear2
International Coach
Yet he's made more than a couple.
kyear2
International Coach
As it's the ATG thread.
What, in my opinion makes my AT complete is how everyone compliments each other and everyone fits into a role.
The openers, one the perfect anchor, the other capable of scoring a hundred before lunch, both had the techniques to blunt the opposition on spicy surfaces. They both proved themselves vs the best fast men of their day and for different reasons made us wonder what could have been.
One drop requires no explanation. The GOAT
At four comes arguably the greatest ever player of fast bowling, and one that could take the game away from the opposition in session. He was also one of the greatest practitioners at 3rd that I've seen. He's followed by the calming influence of the team, the one to temper a collapse should one occur, but also capable of continuing the carnage if required, and all aided by an immaculate technique and ridiculous consistency.
The all rounder similarly needs no explanation. Bat, bowl and catch everything at 2nd. For the former and latter he was superb, the other, merely good. The perfect cricketer. The 2nd all rounder holds the gloves and utilized them masterfully to spin and pace. He's also a cheat code coming in at 7, especially in this line up.
And oh the attack. The openers are the perfect combination. Short, express and skiddy who could swing it both ways, matched with tall, disarming bounce and unmatched accuracy paired with precise seam movement. One tested your will the other your technique.
What came next was no easier. The most dangerous proponent of the old ball, pace and swing, conventional and reverse, and both ways, almost seemingly at will. And from the other side of the wicket. Also capable of crucial knocks when required. And the there's the master of leg spin, he commanded flight, drift and dip, and of course the leggie. But added to all of this was that he never stopped attacking and dominated many a 5th day.
Is it perfect, no. It would be magnificent if Wasim could bat like Imran or Richards catch like Barlow, but both were more than good enough.
But there's aggression and defence, guys to bowl into and against the wind, a tail that bats to 10 and almost as brilliant a cordon as one can get.
Coronis
International Coach
Best losers XI (min 20 innings/2000 balls in losses, Post WWI)
Herbert Sutcliffe 1198 @ 54.45 4 tons
Jack Hobbs 1295 @ 53.95 6 tons
Len Hutton 1700 @ 50.00 3 tons
Don Bradman 952 @ 43.27 2 tons
Brian Lara 5316 @ 42.19 14 tons
Daryl Mitchell 1036 @ 51.80 3 tons
Andy Flower+ 2713 @ 43.06 7 tons
Rodney Hogg 68 @ 22.254 5’fers
Ghulam Ahmed 36 @ 25.75 3 5’fers
Glenn McGrath 87 @ 23.89 7 5’fers
Courtney Walsh 186 @ 25.09 9 5’fers
I cheated a little and added Lara and Walsh since they had such high aggregates. Rightfully it should be Hazare and Adcock. But there was less than a run difference between their averages.
Shoehorned Hutton in because I wanted all 4 of those blokes with the 50+ averages in there.
Herbert Sutcliffe 1198 @ 54.45 4 tons
Jack Hobbs 1295 @ 53.95 6 tons
Len Hutton 1700 @ 50.00 3 tons
Don Bradman 952 @ 43.27 2 tons
Brian Lara 5316 @ 42.19 14 tons
Daryl Mitchell 1036 @ 51.80 3 tons
Andy Flower+ 2713 @ 43.06 7 tons
Rodney Hogg 68 @ 22.254 5’fers
Ghulam Ahmed 36 @ 25.75 3 5’fers
Glenn McGrath 87 @ 23.89 7 5’fers
Courtney Walsh 186 @ 25.09 9 5’fers
I cheated a little and added Lara and Walsh since they had such high aggregates. Rightfully it should be Hazare and Adcock. But there was less than a run difference between their averages.
Shoehorned Hutton in because I wanted all 4 of those blokes with the 50+ averages in there.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Bradman averages just 43 in losses....... Kyear2 might be onto something. Also, like no spinner is better than Ghulam Ahmed??
Coronis
International Coach
Not with 2000+ balls at least. Next one is Ray Bright at ~27. The best great spinner is Tayfield at 28.23.
Fun fact, Wasim has the most 10’fers in losses with 3. Probably filled with tailenders
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Murali and Warne both seems to average 26; but Ashwin does just shy of 25. All 3 seems to have bowled way over 2000 balls (unless I am missing something very basic).Not with 2000+ balls at least. Next one is Ray Bright at ~27. The best great spinner is Tayfield at 28.23.
Fun fact, Wasim has the most 10’fers in losses with 3. Probably filled with tailenders
Coronis
International Coach
I’m not sure where you’re getting those stats from?
Murali 210 @ 31.66
Warne 102 @ 30.09
Ashwin 97 @ 33.89
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Ignore the previous comment. I mistakenly filtered with toss result in place of match result.
Hungry Llama
U19 Debutant
ATG teams were without a doubt the RoW teams that beat england at home in 1970 and Oz at home in 1971-72.
Those matches should be officially recognised as tests even though it would need some altering to the stats.
Those matches should be officially recognised as tests even though it would need some altering to the stats.
Coronis
International Coach
And as follow ups we have
Best Winners
Saeed Anwar 2254 @ 66.29 8 tons
Len Hutton 2678 @ 65.31 8 tons
Don Bradman 4813 @ 130.08 23 tons
Kane Williamson 4994 @ 81.86 21 tons
Inzamam ul-Haq 4690 @ 78.16 17 tons
Garry Sobers 3097 @ 77.42 12 tons
Kumar Sangakkara+ 5449 @ 71.69 19 tons
Imran Khan 155 @ 14.50 11 5’fers
Richard Hadlee 173 @ 13.06 17 5’fers
Fazal Mahmood 65 @ 10.69 9 5’fers
Bert Ironmonger 53 @ 10.07 4 5’fers
and Draws
Usman Khawaja 1417 @ 88.56 7 tons
Chris Gayle 2990 @ 72.92 8 tons
Everton Weekes 2268 @ 87.23 10 tons
Steve Smith 1943 @ 88.31 8 tons
Michael Clarke 1816 @ 75.66 8 tons
Jacques Kallis 4344 @ 74.89 20 tons
Kumar Sangakkara+ 4013 @ 71.66 14 tons
Bruce Taylor 65 @ 21.20 4 5’fers
Bruce Yardley 41 @ 25.60 2 5’fers
Joel Garner 97 @ 22.08 4 5’fers
Ken Higgs 38 @ 17.42 1 5’fer
Best Winners
Saeed Anwar 2254 @ 66.29 8 tons
Len Hutton 2678 @ 65.31 8 tons
Don Bradman 4813 @ 130.08 23 tons
Kane Williamson 4994 @ 81.86 21 tons
Inzamam ul-Haq 4690 @ 78.16 17 tons
Garry Sobers 3097 @ 77.42 12 tons
Kumar Sangakkara+ 5449 @ 71.69 19 tons
Imran Khan 155 @ 14.50 11 5’fers
Richard Hadlee 173 @ 13.06 17 5’fers
Fazal Mahmood 65 @ 10.69 9 5’fers
Bert Ironmonger 53 @ 10.07 4 5’fers
and Draws
Usman Khawaja 1417 @ 88.56 7 tons
Chris Gayle 2990 @ 72.92 8 tons
Everton Weekes 2268 @ 87.23 10 tons
Steve Smith 1943 @ 88.31 8 tons
Michael Clarke 1816 @ 75.66 8 tons
Jacques Kallis 4344 @ 74.89 20 tons
Kumar Sangakkara+ 4013 @ 71.66 14 tons
Bruce Taylor 65 @ 21.20 4 5’fers
Bruce Yardley 41 @ 25.60 2 5’fers
Joel Garner 97 @ 22.08 4 5’fers
Ken Higgs 38 @ 17.42 1 5’fer
kyear2
International Coach
Top 20 Batsman
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards
Hobbs
Smith
Lara
Hutton
Richards*
Gavaskar
Chappell
Hammond
Ponting
Border
Kallis
Headley
Sangakkara
Pollock
Waugh
Dravid
Top 16 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Warne
Muralitharan
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
O'Reilly
Wasim
Holding
Lindwall
Garner
Davidson
Top 12 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Sobers
Chappell
Taylor
Waugh
Ponting
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis
Lloyd
Dravid
Top 10 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Gilchrist
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Procter*
Knott
Top 8 Captains
Border
Benaud
Ranatunga
Taylor
Worrell
Jardine
Lloyd
Imran
All Time XI (1)
Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman ©
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^⁵
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Wasim Akram ³
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Shane Warne ⁴
Glenn McGrath ²
All Time XI (2)
Sir John Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Walter Hammond^
Brian Lara^
Steve Smith
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Imran Khan©³
Allan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee ²
Dale Steyn ¹
Muttiah Muralitharan ⁴
All Time XI (3)
Herbert Sutcliffe
Graeme Smith^©
George Headley
Greg Chappell^
Ricky Ponting^
Kumar Sangakkara (wk)
Keith Miller ⁵
Mike Procter ³
Curtly Ambrose ²
Dennis Lillee ¹
William O'Reilly ⁴
All Time XI (4)
Sir Gordon Greenidge^
Matthew Hayden^
Rahul Dravid^
Graeme Pollock
Sir Frank Worrell ⁵
Allan Border ©
Leslie Ames (wk)
Alan Davidson ²
Ravichandran Ashwin ⁴
Joel Garner ³
Allan Donald ¹
All Time XI (5)
Bobby Simpson^
Edgar Barlow^⁵
Kenneth Barrington
Sir Everton Weekes^
Javed Miandad
Stephen Waugh ©
Sir Clyde Walcott (wk)
Shaun Pollock ³
Raymond Lindwall ¹
Frederick Trueman ²
James Laker ³
All Time XI (6)
Virender Sehwag
Geoffrey Boycott
Neil Harvey^
Younis Khan
Clive Lloyd^©
Anthony Greig^ ⁵
BJ Watling (wk)
Hedley Verity ⁴
Michael Holding ¹
Waqar Younis ³
Jasprit Bumrah ²
All Time Australia XI
Robert Simpson^⁵
Matthew Hayden
Sir Donald Bradman
Steven Smith^
Greg Chappell^
Allan Border ©
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Alan Davidson ³
Shane Warne ⁴
Dennis Lillee ¹
Glenn McGrath ²
All Time West Windies XI
Sir Frank Worrell ©
Sir Gordon Greenidge
Sir George Headley
Sir I. V.A. Richards^
Brian Lara^
Sir Garfield Sobers^⁴
Sir Clyde Walcott (wk)
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Michael Holding ³
Sir Curtly Ambrose ²
Lance Gibbs ⁵
South Africa All Time XI
Barry Richards^
Graeme Smith ©
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
A.B. de Villiers^
Jock Cameron (wk)
Mike Procter ³
Dale Steyn ¹
Hugh Tayfield ⁴
Allan Donald ²
Pakistan All Time XI
Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Younis Khan^
Javed Miandad ^
Inzamam Up Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
Imran Khan ©¹
Wasim Akram ²
Saqlain Mushtaq ⁴
Waqar Younis ³
England All Time XI
Sir John Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton ©
Walter Hammond^
Joseph Root
Ken Barrington^
Ian Botham^ ⁴
Allan Knott (wk)
Hedley Verity ⁵
Frederick Trueman ¹
Frank Tyson ³
James Anderson ²
India All Time XI
Sunil Gavaskar^
Virender Sehwag^
Rahul Dravid^
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli ©
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja ⁵
Kapil Dev ³
Ravichandran Ashwin ⁴
Mohammad Shami ²
Jasprit Bumrah ¹
Top 40 cricketers of All Time
Tier 1
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Hobbs / Hadlee / McGrath / Tendulkar / Richards
Tier 2
Warne / Imran / Steyn / Muralitharan / Smith / Lara / Hammond / Kallis / Hutton / Gilchrist / Richards* / Ambrose / Gavaskar / O'Reilly / Wasim / Chappell / Lillee
Tier 3
Headley / Ponting / Border / Donald / Sangakkara / Lindwall / Miller / Knott / Holding / Pollock / Waugh / Procter* / Pollock / Dravid / Garner
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards
Hobbs
Smith
Lara
Hutton
Richards*
Gavaskar
Chappell
Hammond
Ponting
Border
Kallis
Headley
Sangakkara
Pollock
Waugh
Dravid
Top 16 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Steyn
Warne
Muralitharan
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
O'Reilly
Wasim
Holding
Lindwall
Garner
Davidson
Top 12 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Sobers
Chappell
Taylor
Waugh
Ponting
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis
Lloyd
Dravid
Top 10 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Gilchrist
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Procter*
Knott
Top 8 Captains
Border
Benaud
Ranatunga
Taylor
Worrell
Jardine
Lloyd
Imran
All Time XI (1)
Sir John Hobbs
Barry Richards^
Sir Donald Bradman ©
Sir. I. V. A. Richards^
Sachin Tendulkar
Sir Garfield Sobers^⁵
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Wasim Akram ³
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Shane Warne ⁴
Glenn McGrath ²
All Time XI (2)
Sir John Hobbs
Sunil Gavaskar
Walter Hammond^
Brian Lara^
Steve Smith
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Imran Khan©³
Allan Knott (wk)
Richard Hadlee ²
Dale Steyn ¹
Muttiah Muralitharan ⁴
All Time XI (3)
Herbert Sutcliffe
Graeme Smith^©
George Headley
Greg Chappell^
Ricky Ponting^
Kumar Sangakkara (wk)
Keith Miller ⁵
Mike Procter ³
Curtly Ambrose ²
Dennis Lillee ¹
William O'Reilly ⁴
All Time XI (4)
Sir Gordon Greenidge^
Matthew Hayden^
Rahul Dravid^
Graeme Pollock
Sir Frank Worrell ⁵
Allan Border ©
Leslie Ames (wk)
Alan Davidson ²
Ravichandran Ashwin ⁴
Joel Garner ³
Allan Donald ¹
All Time XI (5)
Bobby Simpson^
Edgar Barlow^⁵
Kenneth Barrington
Sir Everton Weekes^
Javed Miandad
Stephen Waugh ©
Sir Clyde Walcott (wk)
Shaun Pollock ³
Raymond Lindwall ¹
Frederick Trueman ²
James Laker ³
All Time XI (6)
Virender Sehwag
Geoffrey Boycott
Neil Harvey^
Younis Khan
Clive Lloyd^©
Anthony Greig^ ⁵
BJ Watling (wk)
Hedley Verity ⁴
Michael Holding ¹
Waqar Younis ³
Jasprit Bumrah ²
All Time Australia XI
Robert Simpson^⁵
Matthew Hayden
Sir Donald Bradman
Steven Smith^
Greg Chappell^
Allan Border ©
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Alan Davidson ³
Shane Warne ⁴
Dennis Lillee ¹
Glenn McGrath ²
All Time West Windies XI
Sir Frank Worrell ©
Sir Gordon Greenidge
Sir George Headley
Sir I. V.A. Richards^
Brian Lara^
Sir Garfield Sobers^⁴
Sir Clyde Walcott (wk)
Malcolm Marshall ¹
Michael Holding ³
Sir Curtly Ambrose ²
Lance Gibbs ⁵
South Africa All Time XI
Barry Richards^
Graeme Smith ©
Jacques Kallis^⁵
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
A.B. de Villiers^
Jock Cameron (wk)
Mike Procter ³
Dale Steyn ¹
Hugh Tayfield ⁴
Allan Donald ²
Pakistan All Time XI
Saeed Anwar
Hanif Mohammad
Younis Khan^
Javed Miandad ^
Inzamam Up Haq
Mushtaq Mohammad
Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
Imran Khan ©¹
Wasim Akram ²
Saqlain Mushtaq ⁴
Waqar Younis ³
England All Time XI
Sir John Hobbs
Sir Leonard Hutton ©
Walter Hammond^
Joseph Root
Ken Barrington^
Ian Botham^ ⁴
Allan Knott (wk)
Hedley Verity ⁵
Frederick Trueman ¹
Frank Tyson ³
James Anderson ²
India All Time XI
Sunil Gavaskar^
Virender Sehwag^
Rahul Dravid^
Sachin Tendulkar
Virat Kohli ©
Rishabh Pant (wk)
Ravindra Jadeja ⁵
Kapil Dev ³
Ravichandran Ashwin ⁴
Mohammad Shami ²
Jasprit Bumrah ¹
Top 40 cricketers of All Time
Tier 1
Bradman / Sobers / Marshall / Hobbs / Hadlee / McGrath / Tendulkar / Richards
Tier 2
Warne / Imran / Steyn / Muralitharan / Smith / Lara / Hammond / Kallis / Hutton / Gilchrist / Richards* / Ambrose / Gavaskar / O'Reilly / Wasim / Chappell / Lillee
Tier 3
Headley / Ponting / Border / Donald / Sangakkara / Lindwall / Miller / Knott / Holding / Pollock / Waugh / Procter* / Pollock / Dravid / Garner
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Coronis
International Coach
kyear2
International Coach
You are the definition of predictability.
And remarkable immaturity and pettiness for a 30 year old,
Coronis
International Coach
Ok.You are the definition of predictability.
And remarkable immaturity and pettiness for a 30 year old,
I mean what response are you expecting with a post like that?
kyear2
International Coach
Just don't.
govinda indian fan
State Vice-Captain
All time india xi
Sunil gavaskar
Vijay merchant
Rahul dravid
Sachin tendulkar
Virat kohli(c)
Rishabh pant(wk)
Ravindra jadeja
Kapil dev
Bs chandrasheakar
Jasprit bumarh
Mohd shami
Sunil gavaskar
Vijay merchant
Rahul dravid
Sachin tendulkar
Virat kohli(c)
Rishabh pant(wk)
Ravindra jadeja
Kapil dev
Bs chandrasheakar
Jasprit bumarh
Mohd shami