Jack Hobbs vs Sachin Tendulkar

[kyear2]

Bradman




Tendulkar
Hobbs

Sobers
Smith
Lara
Richards
Gavaskar
Hutton


Hammond
Headley
Sutcliffe
Border
Pollock
Kallis
Waugh
Chappell
Sangakkara
Ponting
Dravid
Root
Trumper

Yeah, disagree with almost all of that.

How was Chappell better than Sunny in the 70's, Border better than him in the 80's and both tiers below. It makes no sense.

Bradman

Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards
Hobbs

Smith
Lara
Hutton
(Richards)

Gavaskar
Chappell
Hammond
Border
Ponting
Kallis

Sangakkara
Waugh
Pollock
Dravid
Headley

How they did it and who they did it against. And I don't care who agrees, no way Bradman was that far ahead.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah, disagree with almost all of that.

How was Chappell better than Sunny in the 70's, Border better than him in the 80's and both tiers below. It makes no sense.

Bradman

Tendulkar
Sobers
Richards
Hobbs

Smith
Lara
Hutton
(Richards)

Gavaskar
Chappell
Hammond
Border
Ponting
Kallis

Sangakkara
Waugh
Pollock
Dravid
Headley

How they did it and who they did it against. And I don't care who agrees, no way Bradman was that far ahead.

Yeah, let just call each other's list thrash and move on. Barry still irks me, especially over Pollock makes no ****ing sense. No way is Bradman only a single tier above Tendulkar or Richards two above Gavaskar. And oh, Chappell wasn't better than Gavaskar in the 70s, nope. Border was in the 80s, as Gavaskar had his best in the previous decade, like Richards, who also was worse than Border in the 80s

 

[BazBall21]

Viv failed in his series vs Hadlee. Sunny failed in one, succeeded in other. Sunny better.

Viv also has similar output except 88 in Pakistan. Sunny also had one good and another decentish tour among those 4 in England. Around equal.

He played Lillee in 3 matches. How come Viv in NZ in 3 matches vs Hadlee doesn't counts but Sunny does?? FTR he scored runs in one of those, in a successful run chase drawing the series. Scored against raging Thomson (yes, he was raging in that series) including tons in Waca and Gabba in very fast wickets and scored heavily in his last series as well. Richards failed in 83 in India, and was good vs the quartet, but not great really. Definitely equal, if Gavaskar not better.

Pak was more batting friendly, but Imran's 40 is the best series by any bowler anywhere. Imran was better in Pakistan than any English bowler in England. Sunny played more than a few such series and had great returns like his twin tons in Faisalabad against peak Imran. Also played Wasim later on. Around equal really.

Richard Hadlee was a nobody on the New Zealand tour where Gavaskar succeeded and he didn't even feature when Gavaskar scored a hundred!

 

[subshakerz]

Viv failed in his series vs Hadlee. Sunny failed in one, succeeded in other. Sunny better.

Difference is one has a large enough sample to evaluate a country, the other no.

Viv also has similar output except 88 in Pakistan. Sunny also had one good and another decentish tour among those 4 in England. Around equal.

Viv has a decentish tour in 86 too I guess. Sunny just flopped more in England.

He played Lillee in 3 matches. How come Viv in NZ in 3 matches vs Hadlee doesn't counts but Sunny does?? FTR he scored runs in one of those, in a successful run chase drawing the series. Scored against raging Thomson (yes, he was raging in that series) including tons in Waca and Gabba in very fast wickets and scored heavily in his last series as well. Richards failed in 83 in India, and was good vs the quartet, but not great really. Definitely equal, if Gavaskar not better.

Just saying, Vivs record in India ticked all the boxes of what you can expect to be tested. Gavaskar has questions of how he would do against Lillee.

Pak was more batting friendly, but Imran's 40 is the best series by any bowler anywhere. Imran was better in Pakistan than any English bowler in England. Sunny played more than a few such series and had great returns like his twin tons in Faisalabad against peak Imran. Also played Wasim later on. Around equal really.

But Sunny piled on the runs more in 78 before Imran reached maturity as a pacer. 82 was a good series for Sunny, not a great one like Viv in 76 and 80/81 in Eng.

 

[Johan]

stop

 

[BazBall21]

Richards in Pakistan is better than Gavaskar in England. Richards did well in 1986. That was a very low scoring series.

 

[BazBall21]

stop

It's hard to stop when @capt_Luffy is now insisting that Gavaskar's 116 against the mighty attack of Headley Howarth, David O'Sullivan, Bevan Condagon, Richard Collinge and Daryl Hadlee is worth the precious time of our Friday night.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Difference is one has a large enough sample to evaluate a country, the other no.


Viv has a decentish tour in 86 too I guess. Sunny just flopped more in England.


Just saying, Vivs record in India ticked all the boxes of what you can expect to be tested. Gavaskar has questions of how he would do against Lillee.


But Sunny piled on the runs more in 78 before Imran reached maturity as a pacer. 82 was a good series for Sunny, not a great one like Viv in 76 and 80/81 in Eng.

Richards flopped in 3 Tests vs Hadlee, so did Gavaskar. Only the later also had a good tour, including a 70 vs Haldee.

Sunny's 104 is regarded widely as his best innings from a technical standpoint. That series was decent overall. Also did fine in his last one.

Without ticking boxes, Gavaskar faced tougher pitches and scored at them in Australia in 79. Without caveats, don't think can really place Richards in India higher.

Comeon now, Sunny is the best in Pakistan, Richards in England. Overall, not much to separate there imho.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's hard to stop when @capt_Luffy is now insisting that Gavaskar's 116 against the mighty attack of Headley Howarth, David O'Sullivan, Bevan Condagon, Richard Collinge and Daryl Hadlee is worth the precious time of our Friday night.

Lol. He said Richards lacked a sample size in NZ, I commented he failed in 3 Tests, Gavaskar in 3; but the latter also had a good series there. And really, Collinge was a good bowler in NZ. What is wrong there??? It's ****ing 3 am here and I am still struck in this cesspool......

 

[kyear2]

Viv failed in his series vs Hadlee. Sunny failed in one, succeeded in other. Sunny better.

Viv also has similar output except 88 in Pakistan. Sunny also had one good and another decentish tour among those 4 in England. Around equal.

He played Lillee in 3 matches. How come Viv in NZ in 3 matches vs Hadlee doesn't counts but Sunny does?? FTR he scored runs in one of those, in a successful run chase drawing the series. Scored against raging Thomson (yes, he was raging in that series) including tons in Waca and Gabba in very fast wickets and scored heavily in his last series as well. Richards failed in 83 in India, and was good vs the quartet, but not great really. Definitely equal, if Gavaskar not better.

Pak was more batting friendly, but Imran's 40 is the best series by any bowler anywhere. Imran was better in Pakistan than any English bowler in England. Sunny played more than a few such series and had great returns like his twin tons in Faisalabad against peak Imran. Also played Wasim later on. Around equal really.

Wow

 

[capt_Luffy]

Richard Hadlee was a nobody on the New Zealand tour where Gavaskar succeeded and he didn't even feature when Gavaskar scored a hundred!

He was the one who ran through India in the 3rd Test taking a 7-fer in the 2nd innings, and dismissed Gavaskar twice.

 

[BazBall21]

He was the one who ran through India in the 3rd Test taking a 7-fer in the 2nd innings, and dismissed Gavaskar twice.

You said Gavaskar succeeded in a tour v Richard Hadlee as a way of him point-scoring against Viv. That iconic 70 v Hadlee who was a nobody at the time with mediocre support at the other end while the match was petering out to a draw.

 

[subshakerz]

Richards flopped in 3 Tests vs Hadlee, so did Gavaskar. Only the later also had a good tour, including a 70 vs Haldee.

Again, we are evaluating countries.

Sunny's 104 is regarded widely as his best innings from a technical standpoint. That series was decent overall. Also did fine in his last one.

Again, he just failed more in Eng than Viv in Pak. It's just a fact.

Without ticking boxes, Gavaskar faced tougher pitches and scored at them in Australia in 79. Without caveats, don't think can really place Richards in India higher.

Given the era, don't think its unreasonable to say success against Lillee should be a prerequisite for having what is considered a good record there. Failing against him will always make the other returns suspect.

Comeon now, Sunny is the best in Pakistan, Richards in England. Overall, not much to separate there imho.

Richards in Eng is more impressive. 76 itself is an ATG series followed by another great one and even a quality one at the end of career.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Wrong thread guys

Viv Richards vs Sunil Gavaskar

Two batsmen that opposition feared

www.cricketweb.net

 

[BazBall21]

I'm in disbelief that one innings of 72 under such uninspiring circumstances is being put forward as a noteworthy point against anyone. Letterlone Viv Richards. That's literally the only innings of any note Gavaskar had against a young and raw Hadlee in that series and it was being implied as some hefty mission accomplished. This is fanboyism seldom witnessed.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Again, we are evaluating countries.


Again, he just failed more in Eng than Viv in Pak. It's just a fact.


Given the era, don't think its unreasonable to say success against Lillee should be a prerequisite for having what is considered a good record there.


Richards in Eng is more impressive. 76 itself is an ATG series followed by another great one and even a quality one at the end of career.

Yes, and Sunny had more success in NZ than Richards. That's all.

Sunny's 79 is also better than 88 of Viv, and I don't think there is much there.

Given he played 3 matches vs Lillee and scored in one, I won't hold it against him.

Okay, Richards in England is ahead, but not by much again. Gavaskar delivered the goods regularly in Pakistan, and 82 Imran Khan was nightmare.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I'm in disbelief that one innings of 72 under such uninspiring circumstances is being put forward as a noteworthy point against anyone. Letterlone Viv Richards. That's literally the only innings of any note Gavaskar had against a young and raw Hadlee in that series and it was being implied as some hefty mission accomplished. This is fanboyism seldom witnessed.

Compared with Richards in NZ?? What he has to show for there??? I said Gavaskar and Richards both failed in NZ vs Hadlee, but Gavaskar had one good series. How tf is it controversial????

 

[capt_Luffy]

You said Gavaskar succeeded in a tour v Richard Hadlee as a way of him point-scoring against Viv. That iconic 70 v Hadlee who was a nobody at the time with mediocre support at the other end while the match was petering out to a draw.

I didn't. I said Gavaskar succeeded in NZ as a point, not vs Hadlee.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah, let just call each other's list thrash and move on. Barry still irks me, especially over Pollock makes no ****ing sense. No way is Bradman only a single tier above Tendulkar or Richards two above Gavaskar. And oh, Chappell wasn't better than Gavaskar in the 70s, nope. Border was in the 80s, as Gavaskar had his best in the previous decade, like Richards, who also was worse than Border in the 80s

The bowlers Bradman faced weren't remotely comparable to the guys Sachin, Viv, Lara, Sobers faced. Not even Hutton etc. not remotely close.

Barry was more proven than Pollock in my opinion, he travelled more places and faced off against better bowlers of the 70's.

No one has to agree.

 

[BazBall21]

Viv failed in his series vs Hadlee. Sunny failed in one, succeeded in other. Sunny better.

Viv also has similar output except 88 in Pakistan. Sunny also had one good and another decentish tour among those 4 in England. Around equal.

He played Lillee in 3 matches. How come Viv in NZ in 3 matches vs Hadlee doesn't counts but Sunny does?? FTR he scored runs in one of those, in a successful run chase drawing the series. Scored against raging Thomson (yes, he was raging in that series) including tons in Waca and Gabba in very fast wickets and scored heavily in his last series as well. Richards failed in 83 in India, and was good vs the quartet, but not great really. Definitely equal, if Gavaskar not better.

Pak was more batting friendly, but Imran's 40 is the best series by any bowler anywhere. Imran was better in Pakistan than any English bowler in England. Sunny played more than a few such series and had great returns like his twin tons in Faisalabad against peak Imran. Also played Wasim later on. Around equal really.

You clearly say Hadlee here.

Each of Viv's 4 innings in NZ came v peak Hadlee with Chatfield at the other end. Gavaskar's hundred in NZ came against a mediocre attack which didn't even include the young and raw version of Hadlee. A 72 with the game petering out to a draw against Hadlee who was not great Hadlee back then means very, very little. It doesn't mean he succeeded in a tour v proper Hadlee like you suggested there by a long shot. I think giving any real weight to Gavaskar over Richards on the basis of their credentials in New Zealand is some serious straw-clutching.