The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[subshakerz]

I will attack you with this later when you downgrade Ashwin away. Thanks.

Lol I have begun to question Trueman recently for the same reason hence I put Donald there.

 

[Coronis]

Hopefully Bumrah ups his game and breaks into the best bowler conversations so that we don't need to debate this. Although then, Hadlee vs Mcgrath would be interesting too

I very much doubt he’ll reach that top 3 conversation.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Hopefully O'Rourke says fit and breaks into the best bowler conversations so that we don't need to debate this. Although then, Hadlee vs Mcgrath would be interesting too

Agree

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I very much doubt he’ll reach that top 3 conversation.

Bumrah needs to perform against NZ. Perhaps after India beats Australia 4-0 and NZ beats England 3-0 he'll get a chance in the WTC final.

 

[Coronis]

Bumrah needs to perform against NZ. Perhaps after India beats Australia 4-0 and NZ beats England 3-0 he'll get a chance in the WTC final.

Perhaps. Or he’d be lucky enough to boost his average against SA and Bavuma or get destroyed by Mendis and SL.

 

[kyear2]

Wasim might be slightly better with the old ball the Imran, but the later brings more to the team.

It's arguable either way and neither is hardly a lock.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Perhaps. Or he’d be lucky enough to boost his average against SA and Bavuma or get destroyed by Mendis and SL.

I actually think SL could be very handy in the final with a very good batting lineup and an improving seam attack.

 

[kyear2]

I consider Wasim more skilled but Imran more destructive. Plus if we are talking a third seamer, I see Imran more suitable.

But again, if Kallis as a batsman looks out of place in you opinion, why doesn't Wasim and Imran when Hadlee and Steyn are better bowlers and Steyn also bowls reverse?

The inconsistency in your arguments still remains.

 

[Coronis]

I actually think SL could be very handy in the final with a very good batting lineup and an improving seam attack.

I’m quite looking forward to them in SA. And us in SL

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I’m quite looking forward to them in SA. And us in SL

Both will be interesting little series.

 

[subshakerz]

But again, if Kallis as a batsman looks out of place in you opinion, why doesn't Wasim and Imran when Hadlee and Steyn are better bowlers and Steyn also bowls reverse?

The inconsistency in your arguments still remains.

There are two considerations: filling the roles of allround swinger, seamer and reverser with best candidates, and having a no.8 with some better batting ability.

Marshall is unquestionably the allround swinger.

McGrath edges out Hadlee as the best seamer.

For reverser, it's between Steyn, Wasim and Imran, and I give Imran the edge here since I believe he is a more ideal third seamer, and a better bowler to me anyways.

Same for the middle order, fill it with the best bats but have some 5th bowling option.

As for Kallis, he has to justify himself in the middle order as a batsman first and he can't.

 

[kyear2]

There are two considerations: filling the roles of allround swinger, seamer and reverser with best candidates, and having a no.8 with some better batting ability.

Marshall is unquestionably the allround swinger.

McGrath edges out Hadlee as the best seamer.

For reverser, it's between Steyn, Wasim and Imran, and I give Imran the edge here since I believe he is a more ideal third seamer, and a better bowler to me anyways.

Same for the middle order, fill it with the best bats but have some 5th bowling option.

As for Kallis, he has to justify himself in the middle order as a batsman first and he can't.

To start, there's no rule that you have to have three of the types of bowlers mentioned, and as per The highlighted bit, you still haven't addressed my point.
If we use this argument for bowlers Imran doesn't make it, he's not in the GOAT argument with the top 3 and the community at large generally rate at least two other seams above him still.
So if ATG batsman Kallis isn't good enough, even with his batting and fielding to make the team, even in Sober's absence, the same spells true for Imran. He's simply not a good a bowler as the other guys in contention.

Hey, one could even argue that Kallis could fill the role of the grinder than some have said the need teams .

But if you want to go best batsmen and find the best bowler among them, and Kallis is disqualified, the same goes for Imran. It's not complicated.

 

[subshakerz]

To start, there's no rule that you have to have three of the types of bowlers mentioned, and as per The highlighted bit, you still haven't addressed my point.

I've always had this rule and it makes sense matchwise. And what's funny is you yourself follow it because in your ATG XI you don't select Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee, the top 3, as your pacers, you picked Wasim who isn't even the top pacer too. So why are you arguing with me if you do the same, pick bowlers based on their categories?

If we use this argument for bowlers Imran doesn't make it, he's not in the GOAT argument with the top 3 and the community at large generally rate at least two other seams above him still.

I've already explained why. He is as good at reverse. Why do you pick Wasim if he isn't in the top 3? You are doing the same, because of specified role in the bowling attack.

So if ATG batsman Kallis isn't good enough, even with his batting and fielding to make the team, even in Sober's absence, the same spells true for Imran. He's simply not a good a bowler as the other guys in contention.

No, I sincerely believe Imran as reverser and third seamer gets there on merit. Kallis as bat doesn't and you haven't given a counter to it.

Hey, one could even argue that Kallis could fill the role of the grinder than some have said the need teams .

But if you want to go best batsmen and find the best bowler among them, and Kallis is disqualified, the same goes for Imran. It's not complicated.

You don't need a grinder role. Hammond is fine.

And once again, I pick bowlers based on who is best in his role, not on the overall list. It's quite simple and others here have done the same.

 

[Victor Ian]

Hammond lasts more balls per innings than Kallis. Isnt he a better grinder, if occupying the crease is what is being sought?

 

[Coronis]

A top 6 to tire out the bowlers:

Sutcliffe
Mitchell
Bradman
Hammond
Headley
Barrington


Will take you 149 overs an innings to get these blokes out.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

A top 6 to tire out the bowlers:

Sutcliffe
Mitchell
Bradman
Hammond
Headley
Barrington


Will take you 149 overs an innings to get these blokes out.

Pleased to see you're opening with a couple of Kiwis, but Bert was a bit of a dasher as is Daryl who prefers 5.

 

[Coronis]

Pleased to see you're opening with a couple of Kiwis, but Bert was a bit of a dasher as is Daryl who prefers 5.

Could’ve gone with Rabone and Turner instead… silly me.

 

[Zinzan]

A top 6 to tire out the bowlers:

Sutcliffe
Mitchell
Bradman
Hammond
Headley
Barrington


Will take you 149 overs an innings to get these blokes out.

Hanif Mohammad & his son Shoaib on Subcontinent tracks

 

[kyear2]

I've always had this rule and it makes sense matchwise. And what's funny is you yourself follow it because in your ATG XI you don't select Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee, the top 3, as your pacers, you picked Wasim who isn't even the top pacer too. So why are you arguing with me if you do the same, pick bowlers based on their categories?


I've already explained why. He is as good at reverse. Why do you pick Wasim if he isn't in the top 3? You are doing the same, because of specified role in the bowling attack.


No, I sincerely believe Imran as reverser and third seamer gets there on merit. Kallis as bat doesn't and you haven't given a counter to it.


You don't need a grinder role. Hammond is fine.

And once again, I pick bowlers based on who is best in his role, not on the overall list. It's quite simple and others here have done the same.

We both need to shorten these posts.

I'm not arguing with you, all I'm saying is that it's not a rule.

Kallis also gets there on merit, just as much merit. If you went best bats then of course he wouldn't make it. Neither would Imran if it's best bowlers. And again you don't need someone who can reverse it, how are you missing that point. But yes, Imran brings reverse and batting, Kallis catching and bowling. There's no difference.

If one is watering it down, so is the other.

And of course Hammond is an option, he's one of my 3 or 4 most useful / utilitarian players ever. But Kallis is the better fit.

 

[kyear2]

A top 6 to tire out the bowlers:

Sutcliffe
Mitchell
Bradman
Hammond
Headley
Barrington


Will take you 149 overs an innings to get these blokes out.

And most games end in a draw?