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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

kyear2

International Coach
I consider Wasim more skilled but Imran more destructive. Plus if we are talking a third seamer, I see Imran more suitable.
But again, if Kallis as a batsman looks out of place in you opinion, why doesn't Wasim and Imran when Hadlee and Steyn are better bowlers and Steyn also bowls reverse?

The inconsistency in your arguments still remains.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
But again, if Kallis as a batsman looks out of place in you opinion, why doesn't Wasim and Imran when Hadlee and Steyn are better bowlers and Steyn also bowls reverse?

The inconsistency in your arguments still remains.
There are two considerations: filling the roles of allround swinger, seamer and reverser with best candidates, and having a no.8 with some better batting ability.

Marshall is unquestionably the allround swinger.

McGrath edges out Hadlee as the best seamer.

For reverser, it's between Steyn, Wasim and Imran, and I give Imran the edge here since I believe he is a more ideal third seamer, and a better bowler to me anyways.

Same for the middle order, fill it with the best bats but have some 5th bowling option.

As for Kallis, he has to justify himself in the middle order as a batsman first and he can't.
 
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kyear2

International Coach
There are two considerations: filling the roles of allround swinger, seamer and reverser with best candidates, and having a no.8 with some better batting ability.

Marshall is unquestionably the allround swinger.

McGrath edges out Hadlee as the best seamer.

For reverser, it's between Steyn, Wasim and Imran, and I give Imran the edge here since I believe he is a more ideal third seamer, and a better bowler to me anyways.

Same for the middle order, fill it with the best bats but have some 5th bowling option.

As for Kallis, he has to justify himself in the middle order as a batsman first and he can't.
To start, there's no rule that you have to have three of the types of bowlers mentioned, and as per The highlighted bit, you still haven't addressed my point.
If we use this argument for bowlers Imran doesn't make it, he's not in the GOAT argument with the top 3 and the community at large generally rate at least two other seams above him still.
So if ATG batsman Kallis isn't good enough, even with his batting and fielding to make the team, even in Sober's absence, the same spells true for Imran. He's simply not a good a bowler as the other guys in contention.

Hey, one could even argue that Kallis could fill the role of the grinder than some have said the need teams 🤷🏽‍♂️.

But if you want to go best batsmen and find the best bowler among them, and Kallis is disqualified, the same goes for Imran. It's not complicated.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
To start, there's no rule that you have to have three of the types of bowlers mentioned, and as per The highlighted bit, you still haven't addressed my point.
I've always had this rule and it makes sense matchwise. And what's funny is you yourself follow it because in your ATG XI you don't select Marshall, McGrath and Hadlee, the top 3, as your pacers, you picked Wasim who isn't even the top pacer too. So why are you arguing with me if you do the same, pick bowlers based on their categories?

If we use this argument for bowlers Imran doesn't make it, he's not in the GOAT argument with the top 3 and the community at large generally rate at least two other seams above him still.
I've already explained why. He is as good at reverse. Why do you pick Wasim if he isn't in the top 3? You are doing the same, because of specified role in the bowling attack.

So if ATG batsman Kallis isn't good enough, even with his batting and fielding to make the team, even in Sober's absence, the same spells true for Imran. He's simply not a good a bowler as the other guys in contention.
No, I sincerely believe Imran as reverser and third seamer gets there on merit. Kallis as bat doesn't and you haven't given a counter to it.

Hey, one could even argue that Kallis could fill the role of the grinder than some have said the need teams 🤷🏽‍♂️.

But if you want to go best batsmen and find the best bowler among them, and Kallis is disqualified, the same goes for Imran. It's not complicated.
You don't need a grinder role. Hammond is fine.

And once again, I pick bowlers based on who is best in his role, not on the overall list. It's quite simple and others here have done the same.
 

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