Unpopular Cricket Opinions

[ataraxia]

Good thing thread is "unpopular opinions" then and not "accurate opinions"

Imran still rarely batted higher than 7 so just don't see him as a batting allrounder

Yeah that latter thing is definitely due to his bowling load (it's a bit sad that all-rounders get nerfed in that respect). I would actually class Miller as a bowling all-rounder as well, tbh: he's definitely an ATVG bowler at worst but failed to impress quite as much with the bat in tests.

 

[shortpitched713]

They're both what I'd call "complete" all-rounders. Souped up Bothams, if you will.

I'd say that Imran is just that slight bit more complete, solely on the basis of Miller's lowered bowling workrate. Imran should always come up trumps in an all-rounder comparison between the two, regardless of if their overall bowling average looks virtually identical.

I rate Miller slightly higher as a bat though.

 

[Qlder]

I rate Miller slightly higher as a bat though.

Yeah, Keith Miller and Kim Hughes are easily the two best Test bats to ever end up with an average of only 37

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think before Donnelly used to pop up so often was largely because NZ batting was quite weak. It was him or Fleming for a majority.

Donnelly was WELL ahead of Fleming.

 

[Thala_0710]

Kohli is now closer to Sehwag than Dravid as a test batsman

 

[Coronis]

Yeah that latter thing is definitely due to his bowling load (it's a bit sad that all-rounders get nerfed in that respect). I would actually class Miller as a bowling all-rounder as well, tbh: he's definitely an ATVG bowler at worst but failed to impress quite as much with the bat in tests.

Miller in first class was a much more batting oriented player. He bowled almost half the amount per match that he did in tests, whilst averaging over 50. Whether that was due to intl bowling quality, or the necessity for him to bowl more, who knows.

 

[ataraxia]

Miller in first class was a much more batting oriented player. He bowled almost half the amount per match that he did in tests, whilst averaging over 50. Whether that was due to intl bowling quality, or the necessity for him to bowl more, who knows.

Yeah he's absolutely better than a 37-averaging batter and I hate when people belittle his batting, but then again it was an extremely batting-favouring era of Shield cricket (though I acknowledge that a good proportion of his FC matches were on tour).

 

[Qlder]

Batsmen that play reverse sweeps and scoops in Tests should be immediately dropped from the test team

 

[Immenso]

Batsmen that meekly glance a catch to leg slip from a spinner. because they haven't dispersed that close-in catcher by playing enough reverse sweeps, in Tests should be immediately dropped from the test team

 

[Ali TT]

No one bit on this hot take, so I'll put some names:

Greig over Mushtaq Mohammed
Imran over Keith Miller
Sober over Kallis (Kallis was a full time all-rounder, contrary to many peoples' belief, but damn was Sobers was a workhorse)
Shakib over Faulkner (this one more stretch, but similar principle)

Lowering the workload really should be more of a penalty to some of these batting all-rounders in how they're rated, and also give us an appreciation of maybe how unrealistic it is to find real quality batting all-rounders.

But what are you defining as "meaningful"? A Kallis or Watson bowling some dry overs as the ball dies still provide meaning to an attack even if statistically uninspiring.

That they are vanishingly small probably arises more from the need to have to average a lot more with the bat than an AR who comes in at 6 or lower to justify a top order batting slot.

 

[Starfighter]

Feathering down the leg side to the keeper isn't unlucky.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Announcing Playing XI's to the public before match day has no value whatsoever

 

[Chubb]

The legendary hard-drinking Aussie cricketers like Rod Marsh and Boon were actually functioning alcoholics and their addiction affected their career performance. Marsh averaged less than 20 with the bat for most of his test career and booze is part of the reason for that.

 

[shortpitched713]

That they are vanishingly small probably arises more from the need to have to average a lot more with the bat than an AR who comes in at 6 or lower to justify a top order batting slot.

Even a top 6 bat putting in consistent shifts with the ball is very rare. Obviously it's a tradeoff I.e. more useful bat less useful bowler.

Thing is, it's not rare for teams to have 1) a specialist level bowling all-rounder, putting in a full bowling shift on their team and averaging 20+ with the bat. Some have even had 2.

2) A 35+ averaging batting allrounder is usually a "luxury bowling option" who tends not to be as useful in push comes to shove situations (there are exceptions, like Sobers/Stokes for instance).

It's probably better not to bother looking for option 2s, and instead increase team flexibility with option 1s, where available.

 

[sayon basak]

Bowling variations rather than your stock delivery is cheating.

 

[Arachnodouche]

The legendary hard-drinking Aussie cricketers like Rod Marsh and Boon were actually functioning alcoholics and their addiction affected their career performance. Marsh averaged less than 20 with the bat for most of his test career and booze is part of the reason for that.

Oh no the clean-living mafia's here. What's next, no red meat and Pringles as well?

But in all seriousness, I saw some chatty show with Ajinkya Rahane on the youtubes and even he as a disposed-of asset now playing domestics only does a cheat meal i.e. the more savory parts of his traditional cuisine once every 2-3 months. Which strikes me as insanely self-punishing. Wonder how adherence to prescribed diets is penciled into their contracts or if it's entirely up to player discretion. Looking at the likes of Sarfaraz, Ashwin, and Pant, you'd have to think it's the latter.

 

[SteveNZ]

Batsmen that play reverse sweeps and scoops in Tests should be immediately dropped from the test team

We wouldn't have won potentially any of the 3 Tests in India if this was true.

Feathering down the leg side to the keeper isn't unlucky.

This is a good one. This happens far too often to keep getting the commentator's cliche of 'unlucky to be strangled'.

 

[SteveNZ]

The legendary hard-drinking Aussie cricketers like Rod Marsh and Boon were actually functioning alcoholics and their addiction affected their career performance. Marsh averaged less than 20 with the bat for most of his test career and booze is part of the reason for that.

I mean that's a bit of a hard one to quantify...Doug Walters averaged 48 and no one liked a drink more than him. No doubt there's a multitude of cricketers you could say p*ssed away a better career. Obvious ones like Jesse Ryder, but I could name you 10 more just on the NZ scene that no one might have otherwise thought. And some that had outstanding international careers that loved to booze it up.

 

[Qlder]

The legendary hard-drinking Aussie cricketers like Rod Marsh and Boon were actually functioning alcoholics and their addiction affected their career performance. Marsh averaged less than 20 with the bat for most of his test career and booze is part of the reason for that.

Apparently Garry Sobers went out drinking every night of a test match often returning just before play. Didn't seem to do his career any harm and he's currently 88 not out

 

[Ali TT]

Apparently Garry Sobers went out drinking every night of a test match often returning just before play. Didn't seem to do his career any harm and he's currently 88 not out

If true, regardless of how talented someone like Sobers was, stories like that only suggest the standard of cricket back then was pretty terrible.