Dale Steyn vs Muralitharan

[Coronis]

@subshakerz I’m curious, what tests have you watched recently?

 

[smash84]

He has that caveat but other greats like Mcgrath and Hadlee do too. And you have to look at his overall record in Aus. 31 wickets in 6 matches @26-27 and an insane SR(keeping in the mind the context and era) is amazing.

And never bringing up context for certain players while always presenting mitigating circumstances like how someone was injured during blah blah tours is what annoys me, too.

The 2008 and 2012 series were played on pretty flat wickets. The fact that Steyn was among the top wicket takers that led to series wins counts highly in his favor. That he averaged 1 run this side of some arbitrary 25 average is ridiculous. He was the best bowler from both sides on pretty flat wickets taken across both the series.

 

[Silver Silva]

'08's romanticized but besides that second Test where he couldn't do wrong with ball or bat, he was fairly easily negotiated.

W.r.t. the few posts above, I too find it hard to digest that a fast-bowling ATG, which Steyn undoubtedly is, can be manhandled in the manner that Sehwag, KP, and Mahela/Sanga did. Singular occasions/conditions, no doubt, and sure, Steyn's method fed into it in no small measure, but all other ATGs seemed capable of reverting to an economical gear when conditions were rough. You can glamorize that as Steyn's bullheadedness in the pursuit of wickets but it's equally fair to say he lacked the defensive skill that his rival ATGs had. It's as likely he'd get flogged by today's Bazball hacks as make them look ridiculous The likes of McGrath, not so much.

100% agree bro Steyn didn't cope well with being dominated, a lot of times he got absolutely smashed by strokes players even those on a lower level than ATG, even Babar Azam made him look like a club bowler here is some footage:

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

100% agree bro Steyn didn't cope well with being dominated, a lot of times he got absolutely smashed by strokes players even those on a lower level than ATG, even Babar Azam made him look like a club bowler here is some footage:

This is like the last stage of Steyn’s career

 

[Silver Silva]

This is like the last stage of Steyn’s career

He's still bowling fast here , there is also KP and others taking him to the cleaners

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

He's still bowling fast here , there is also KP and others taking him to the cleaners

Agreed being taken apart is a caveat in Steyn’s career, but other bowlers have weaknesses of a similar level

 

[Coronis]

He's still bowling fast here , there is also KP and others taking him to the cleaners

Kohli sucks against all bowling, based on bowler’s hl’s from the last few years of his career imo.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

100% agree bro Steyn didn't cope well with being dominated, a lot of times he got absolutely smashed by strokes players even those on a lower level than ATG, even Babar Azam made him look like a club bowler here is some footage:

Really hope we see the 2018-2022 version of Babar again

 

[smash84]

Really hope we see the 2018-2022 version of Babar again

I hope not. The team's playing much better now that he is out.

 

[kyear2]

As you know, I also consider Steyn a bit below par in England. Not so in Australia where Steyn (I don't use the term ATG) was very good.

The question was specifically on why you rate McGrath vs SA OVERALL better than Steyn vs Aus OVERALL. And Steyn takes 5 WPM against Aus at a great SR. The lineups Steyn faced were fairly good.

I have no hesitation in saying Steyn was better vs Aus OVERALL and McGrath vs SA OVERALL is a bit of a blemish, whole asserting that McGrath is still superior to Steyn.

I think you have an issue with admitting any fault in Marshall and McGrath records.

What I said above was, I'm not giving McGrath a pass vs SA is Australia, but if it's the main blemish on his record, it's still less than Steyn. That and it was a really good batting lineup.

That's not, not admitting any faults in his record.

Do I think he was above criticism, no. Do I think he's clearly the 2nd best bowler ever, personally there's no doubt he was.

 

[kyear2]

'08's romanticized but besides that second Test where he couldn't do wrong with ball or bat, he was fairly easily negotiated.

W.r.t. the few posts above, I too find it hard to digest that a fast-bowling ATG, which Steyn undoubtedly is, can be manhandled in the manner that Sehwag, KP, and Mahela/Sanga did. Singular occasions/conditions, no doubt, and sure, Steyn's method fed into it in no small measure, but all other ATGs seemed capable of reverting to an economical gear when conditions were rough. You can glamorize that as Steyn's bullheadedness in the pursuit of wickets but it's equally fair to say he lacked the defensive skill that his rival ATGs had. It's as likely he'd get flogged by today's Bazball hacks as make them look ridiculous The likes of McGrath, not so much.

Exactly, and I referenced this as well. It doesn't disqualify him from being an ATG or even top 4, but it pushes him out of the GOAT discussion for me.

 

[_00_deathscar]

100% agree bro Steyn didn't cope well with being dominated, a lot of times he got absolutely smashed by strokes players even those on a lower level than ATG, even Babar Azam made him look like a club bowler here is some footage:

Not sure if this is sarcastic…

 

[subshakerz]

@subshakerz I’m curious, what tests have you watched recently?

Ind NZ.

 

[subshakerz]

What I said above was, I'm not giving McGrath a pass vs SA is Australia, but if it's the main blemish on his record, it's still less than Steyn. That and it was a really good batting lineup.

How? How is 57 wickets in 17 tests with a 71 SR (McGrath) better than 70 wickets in 15 tests at a 46 SR (Steyn)?

It's not like the lineup quality was that different.

 

[kyear2]

How? How is 57 wickets in 17 tests with a 71 SR (McGrath) better than 70 wickets in 15 tests at a 46 SR (Steyn)?

It's not like the lineup quality was that different.

Where did I say it was better?

Less than Steyn meaning that Steyn has other (previously discussed) blemishes on his record.

Didn't mean that blemish is less.

 

[subshakerz]

Where did I say it was better?

Less than Steyn meaning that Steyn has other (previously discussed) blemishes on his record.

Didn't mean that blemish is less.

Ok so you agree that Steyn vs Aus is better than McGrath vs SA? Because that was what was asked of you.

Almost all of us agree Steyns overall blemishes are worse. You don't need to repeat that

 

[kyear2]

Ok so you agree that Steyn vs Aus is better than McGrath vs SA? Because that was what was asked of you.

Almost all of us agree Steyns overall blemishes are worse. You don't need to repeat that

God, you do love to argue don't you.

 

[subshakerz]

God, you do love to argue don't you.

Actually I don't on this point. It's just that you can't give straight answers man. It should as simple as yeah he is better vs Aus but overall Steyn is worse as a bowler.

 

[Arachnodouche]

How? How is 57 wickets in 17 tests with a 71 SR (McGrath) better than 70 wickets in 15 tests at a 46 SR (Steyn)?

It's not like the lineup quality was that different.

Not better, not even a justification for McG, but Steyn did play almost his entire career against an Aus on the wane/mend while McGrath had to cope with a slightly more doughty/resurgent SA team.

 

[shortpitched713]

Not better, not even a justification for McG, but Steyn did play almost his entire career against an Aus on the wane/mend while McGrath had to cope with a slightly more doughty/resurgent SA team.

Nah, SA weren't really a threat to that quality of Australia at any point during McGrath's career. I'd give the slight advantage to the on the wane Aus in this comparison, actually.