*Official* England's Tour of the West Indies, OCTOBER 31st to NOVEMBER 17th, 2024-- 3 ODIs & 5 T20Is

[Molehill]

Surely with England choosing Cox to be test keeper next month in NZ, it would be sensible to have him keep wkt in this series
so he gets some practice and experience.

Common sense doesn't apply to this regime, which as @kevinw says, is losing its popularity quite quickly at the moment.

They picked a daft squad, they managed to pick an even dafter team from that squad, they picked a daft captain and then played daft cricket.

Pepper for Overton the obvious change for the next match. Bat him at 4 and let everyone else slide down one.

Well played Windies, although in truth, not sure they had to play that well to win, the batting largely donated their wickets to them.

 

[Chin Music]

Common sense doesn't apply to this regime, which as @kevinw says, is losing its popularity quite quickly at the moment.

They picked a daft squad, they managed to pick an even dafter team from that squad, they picked a daft captain and then played daft cricket.

Pepper for Overton the obvious change for the next match. Bat him at 4 and let everyone else slide down one.

Well played Windies, although in truth, not sure they had to play that well to win, the batting largely donated their wickets to them.

Can't say I was that surprised at the outcome. I said earlier on in this thread that how can you be surprised if we don't exactly have a lot of genuine 50 over protagonists if many of the best cricketers are not going to play in the domestic 50 over competition because they will be playing in the ludicrous 16.4 compo? The choice of J Overton for one, seems utterly bizarre as a batter alone. Decent hitter from time to time, but that's it. You can pin this on the management.

 

[Molehill]

Can't say I was that surprised at the outcome. I said earlier on in this thread that how can you be surprised if we don't exactly have a lot of genuine 50 over protagonists if many of the best cricketers are not going to play in the domestic 50 over competition because they will be playing in the ludicrous 16.4 compo? The choice of J Overton for one, seems utterly bizarre as a batter alone. Decent hitter from time to time, but that's it. You can pin this on the management.

Agreed, it did pretty much what you'd expect of this team. Some of them barely play 20 over cricket let alone 50. Hardly surprising they've no idea how to pace an innings.

Given the current structure of our game, I fail to see how we can be competitive in 50 over World Cups. We literally took it seriously for 4 years!!

 

[Chin Music]

Agreed, it did pretty much what you'd expect of this team. Some of them barely play 20 over cricket let alone 50. Hardly surprising they've no idea how to pace an innings.

Given the current structure of our game, I fail to see how we can be competitive in 50 over World Cups. We literally took it seriously for 4 years!!

Yep, and we ditched real quick after 2019 when Lord Strauss wanted us to focus on tests again. I am increasingly concerned at the improvisational picks, some have had at least some merit to them, but too many other squad choices across the formats are bizarre. However, when you shift so much of the cricket to the margins to prioritise the 16.4 we are reaping what we have sowed over the last couple of years. Dreadful performance in the last 50 over world cup, a team that was clearly past its sell by date at the t20 world cup earlier this year and the test team having a number of players who have had their limitations badly exposed with no real focus on trying to find adequate replacements.

 

[Molehill]

Yep, and we ditched real quick after 2019 when Lord Strauss wanted us to focus on tests again. I am increasingly concerned at the improvisational picks, some have had at least some merit to them, but too many other squad choices across the formats are bizarre. However, when you shift so much of the cricket to the margins to prioritise the 16.4 we are reaping what we have sowed over the last couple of years. Dreadful performance in the last 50 over world cup, a team that was clearly past its sell by date at the t20 world cup earlier this year and the test team having a number of players who have had their limitations badly exposed with no real focus on trying to find adequate replacements.

This is definitely the area that is frustrating me the most. I'm really not quite sure what it is that you require to get into the various teams, but so many of the picks make little sense. It seems like you can impress this set up more as a random net bowler (Chohan) to the England team than you can in the CC or Blast. I have no idea what Bethell is doing on the Tour of NZ, or what Overton is doing here. What I find even more annoying is that the media don't seem to be pulling them up on it either, why is no one asking these questions?

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

That is the worst innings I have ever seen King play. Awful from start to finish.

To be fair to him, he was the recipient to some good bowling from England's opening bowlers-- Jofra and Turner. A multiple of times the ball jagged back in and he put his bat down just in time. Yes, it was a dodgy innings, but he showed some kind of character to weather that initial storm and take the lacquer off the ball for Lewis to go gung-ho at the other end. Batting in partnerships.

 

[mackembhoy]

Something like this would be my squad for the Champions Trophy. Albeit it's very similar to what failed in India.

Stokes I reckon they will convince to play and in as the 6th bowler over Brook. But they won't pick Hain so I dunno why I bother mentioning him.

Duckett
Jacks
Root
Hain
Stokes
Buttler
Livingstone
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Topley

Reserves Brook,Rehan,Carse,Salt

 

[ashley bach]

Overton batting at 8 as a specialist batsman is actually quite comical.

 

[Molehill]

Something like this would be my squad for the Champions Trophy. Albeit it's very similar to what failed in India.

Stokes I reckon they will convince to play and in as the 6th bowler over Brook. But they won't pick Hain so I dunno why I bother mentioning him.

Duckett
Jacks
Root
Hain
Stokes
Buttler
Livingstone
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Topley

Reserves Brook,Rehan,Carse,Salt

If Hain can't make this joke squad selection he's got no hope for the CT. Surely Buttler bats above Stokes. Only one spare bat needed and two spare seamers instead, Carse and Potts being the obvious ones.

It might sound daft but does Stokes really offer more than Curran now? And I've got a feeling this might be Rashid's last tournament.....

 

[GIMH]

Root goes the CT, surely

 

[mackembhoy]

If Hain can't make this joke squad selection he's got no hope for the CT. Surely Buttler bats above Stokes. Only one spare bat needed and two spare seamers instead, Carse and Potts being the obvious ones.

It might sound daft but does Stokes really offer more than Curran now? And I've got a feeling this might be Rashid's last tournament.....

Curran isn't very good at this format.

Stokes last 3 knocks in ODI cricket were 50+ scores and he averaged 59.88 from 9 knocks last year.

He batted at 4 last year and he averaged 50 at 5 between 2015 and 2019. Buttler always slotted in at 6 in our best side.

I'd still have him if he wants to play in the CT and is selected.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Root between the end of the 2015 WC and 2019 WC final played 89 ODI games, scoring 4k runs @ 59.

Since then he has played 28 games and scored 666 at 29. passing 50 just 5 times with no centuries.

as good as he or Stokes might be. England cannot continue treating this format with the disdain they do. schedule badly, pick absolutely nonsensical squads and expect the established English players to drop in with no practice and make the team competitive.

that 2019 was blessed because they clearly had a crop of insanely talented white ball hitters, a captain who allowed them to express themselves but also because they played together a **** load and were supremely schooled in what they did.

it never fails to astound me how a board with the resources of the ECB is totally incapable of getting the white ball and red ball games working at the same time.

 

[mackembhoy]

Root between the end of the 2015 WC and 2019 WC final played 89 ODI games, scoring 4k runs @ 59.

Since then he has played 28 games and scored 666 at 29. passing 50 just 5 times with no centuries.

as good as he or Stokes might be. England cannot continue treating this format with the disdain they do. schedule badly, pick absolutely nonsensical squads and expect the established English players to drop with no practice and make the team competitive.

that 2019 was blessed because they clearly had a crop of insanely talented white ball hitters, a captain who allowed them to express myself but also because they played together a **** load and were supremely schooled in what they did.

it never fails to astound me how a board with the resources of the ECB is totally incapable of getting the white ball and red ball games working at the same time.

Nailed on head with all of it.

To add your post we're trying to replace these players with guys who've not even played much 50 over cricket full stop in the last 4 years as well.

Picking players based on how they perform in a format nobody else plays and the Blast. Then expecting them to have a clue at pacing an innings over 50 overs.

Plus were obsessed with trying to hit as many sixes as we can in T20I regardless of the game situation and so this has spilled into our ODI side and another reason for such a miserable failure at the World Cup.

 

[ImpatientLime]

Nailed on head with all of it.

To add your post we're trying to replace these players with guys who've not even played much 50 over cricket full stop in the last 4 years as well.

Picking players based on how they perform in a format nobody else plays and the Blast. Then expecting them to have a clue at pacing an innings over 50 overs.

Plus were obsessed with trying to hit as many sixes as we can in T20I regardless of the game situation and so this has spilled into our ODI side and another reason for such a miserable failure at the World Cup.

I was gonna touch on that too but didn't want to tl;dr you all.

Phil Salt is the perfect example. Since his List A debut he averages 4 50 over matches per year. by comparison he plays on average 33 T20 games per year. end result, a pretty good T20 player and a player who has no clue how the craft a list a innings.

 

[Hungry Llama]

They said Rashid had more odi caps than the rest of the team combined. Has bethel even played a 50 over match?

 

[kevinw]

They said Rashid had more odi caps than the rest of the team combined. Has bethel even played a 50 over match?

Highest ODI run scorer in the side too (around 800 runs).

 

[kevinw]

Yep, and we ditched real quick after 2019 when Lord Strauss wanted us to focus on tests again. I am increasingly concerned at the improvisational picks, some have had at least some merit to them, but too many other squad choices across the formats are bizarre. However, when you shift so much of the cricket to the margins to prioritise the 16.4 we are reaping what we have sowed over the last couple of years. Dreadful performance in the last 50 over world cup, a team that was clearly past its sell by date at the t20 world cup earlier this year and the test team having a number of players who have had their limitations badly exposed with no real focus on trying to find adequate replacements.

I think I'm more despondent about the national team than I've ever been. And I've seen them be absolute cack-dreadful. At least you felt they were (more or less) picking the best players available. They were just not good enough - which is fine, I didn't expect mediocre players to be world-beaters. But now it feels that the guys running the game don't take it that seriously and take those who watch it for mugs. Even taking the domestic competitions to one side and just focusing on internationals - you've got this non-stop oversaturation of series in all formats where nobody really cares about the result. Just drop some random guys who've done nothing to earn a cap because of hunches or their golf game, whilst guys who've performed at domestic level are out of the picture. If those hunches work, it's selectorial genius. If not, well, who cares? The Stokes/McCullum bounce in Tests was exhilarating at times, but results and performances have reverted to the mean. Then, who knows what is happening in the short form? We were spoilt under Bayliss/Morgan - legitimately the best short form side in the world for around 5 years. Then getting high on their six-hitting supply and no succession planning when players aged/lost form meant they had their pants pulled down twice in big tournaments. I genuinely don't understand what they're aiming for with this side but they're going to get thrashed by any decent, stable opposition. Yes there are cycles - you're good for a while, then not. And I don't think we're in a good cycle talent-wise anyway but we're certainly making it difficult for ourselves. But crowds are going to drop nearly £200 per ticket against India next Summer so that's all that counts.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

They need more Bajan talent

 

[kevinw]

They need more Bajan talent

Bethell is from Barbados, that must be the logic.

 

[grecian]

Meh, I an see all this, under Baz, leading to a Test dominated ODI side. Crawley and Duckett to open, Brook definitely a mainstay, and wouldn't be shocked if Pope and Smith were in and around, ccertainly when some retire or are forced out.

Ya know I think Hain, Cove and Gregory are the best players in this format for their positions, but they're all now in their 30s and probably should just concentrate on making money in franchises and County Cricket from now on. The powers that be have never really giving them a chance, it won't change.