England players and selection discussion thread

[FBU]

@willis_macp

Expect England to call up Jacob Bethell as batting cover for Test tour of New Zealand

 

[mackembhoy]

@willis_macp

Expect England to call up Jacob Bethell as batting cover for Test tour of New Zealand

Considering they've suggested Cox may not be able to keep all 3 due to fitness. Which is already a tough ask for him seeing as he's not kept in well over a year.

Calling up a batting all rounder is just daft. What are the chances of Pope ending up with the gloves I wonder at some point?

Bethell with 20 FC games an average of 25 and more surprising in this SR obsessed England we now have, he's got a 44 SR in FC cricket.

Bethell gets into the ODI team based on his performance in the Hundred and the Blast and that's somehow got him into the test squad.

May as well just come out and tell people we will not pick you based on the CC , go play T20 leagues if you want an England callup.

 

[GIMH]

May as well just come out and tell people we will not pick you based on the CC

Tbf this seems fairly clear. They don’t trust the CC to produce Test players. Whether that’s right or wrong it’s their stance. It’s covered in that Bazball book, which is worth a read if you’ve not read it.

 

[Molehill]

Tbf this seems fairly clear. They don’t trust the CC to produce Test players. Whether that’s right or wrong it’s their stance. It’s covered in that Bazball book, which is worth a read if you’ve not read it.

It's kind of ironic given the bloke at 3 who made his name in the CC and now is seemingly undroppable. I get that averages in the CC don't tell you everything about a player, but at a time when Bazball supporters are starting to lose faith, the Bethell selection is just plain weird.

When did Jordan Cox even last keep in a match, let alone a Test?

 

[mackembhoy]

Tbf this seems fairly clear. They don’t trust the CC to produce Test players. Whether that’s right or wrong it’s their stance. It’s covered in that Bazball book, which is worth a read if you’ve not read it.

May well be the case.

But Duckett, Pope, Brook and Smith all had excellent county records alongside having the style of play they wanted in the Test team.

Crawley less so on the good record but Key championed him and he's got the style they want.

Bethell is firmly in the punt category with Rehan, Hartley, Bashir and Hull.

Cox also has a good record in CC, they are just taking a punt on the keeping skills.

 

[GIMH]

May well be the case.

But Duckett, Pope, Brook and Smith all had excellent county records alongside having the style of play they wanted in the Test team.

Crawley less so on the good record but Key championed him and he's got the style they want.

Bethell is firmly in the punt category with Rehan, Hartley, Bashir and Hull.

Cox also has a good record in CC, they are just taking a punt on the keeping skills.

Yeah tbf I always took the 'not going off county stats' to be more of a thing they did for bowlers than batsmen. But I suppose we've not had much fluidity to the batting line-up in the Bazball era so the question hasn't really needed asking.

 

[Chin Music]

May well be the case.

But Duckett, Pope, Brook and Smith all had excellent county records alongside having the style of play they wanted in the Test team.

Crawley less so on the good record but Key championed him and he's got the style they want.

Bethell is firmly in the punt category with Rehan, Hartley, Bashir and Hull.

Cox also has a good record in CC, they are just taking a punt on the keeping skills.

Yeah, that sounds about right. It should be said that the seam bowlers are more picked on what they offer pace wise rather than the hard results of say, Sam Cook. However, it is not like the quick bowlers have bad first class records, they just don't tend to stand out in the way that some county seamers are able to achieve in April/May/September.

 

[ImpatientLime]

can't trust CC numbers for batsman cause the standard is ****. so if you're **** in that competition.....??

yet another joke selection from a non serious cricketing organisation .

 

[Chubb]

Don't mind them taking punts but when it feels like they apply standards for some players differently to others it becomes grating. EG "he will be selected no matter what".

 

[kevinw]

I assume 'Bethers' is a scratch golfer.

 

[FBU]

The squad will train in Stellenbosch from 25 November to 16 December as preparation for the upcoming series against South Africa Men U19s in January and February 2025.

England Men U19s training squad:
Tazeem Ali (Warwickshire)
Ben Dawkins (Kent)
Jaydn Denly (Kent)
Rocky Flintoff (Lancashire)
Kesh Fonseka (Lancashire)
Alex French (Surrey)
Alex Green (Leicestershire)
Jack Home (Worcestershire)
James Isbell (Middlesex)
Eddie Jack (Hampshire)
Ben Mayes (Hampshire)
James Minto (Durham)
Joe Moores (Lancashire)
Thomas Rew (Somerset)
Aaryan Sawant (Middlesex)
Naavya Sharma (Middlesex)
Archie Vaughan (Somerset)
Alexander Wade (Yorkshire)

England Men U19s Head Coach, Mike Yardy, said: “It’s an exciting winter for this group of players. Firstly, a training camp to develop individual skills and be very clear on a style of play. This is then followed by a competitive series versus South Africa in both white and red ball cricket."

 

[kevinw]

I don't get why James Rew wasn't selected. A young batter who can keep, with eight FC hundreds, playing for one of the best sides in the country.

 

[kevinw]

It's kind of ironic given the bloke at 3 who made his name in the CC and now is seemingly undroppable. I get that averages in the CC don't tell you everything about a player, but at a time when Bazball supporters are starting to lose faith, the Bethell selection is just plain weird.

When did Jordan Cox even last keep in a match, let alone a Test?

Cox didn't get keeping opportunities at Kent because they had Ollie Robinson but more than that, "Bilbo" would play in t20 tournaments then fly home, walk back into the side, play with zero interest and score few runs, and deny the young players chances.

 

[Molehill]

I assume 'Bethers' is a scratch golfer.

He used to play golf with Sobers. I dare say he's on the Caribbean Tour for his 'Contacts'.....

 

[Molehill]

Cox didn't get keeping opportunities at Kent because they had Ollie Robinson but more than that, "Bilbo" would play in t20 tournaments then fly home, walk back into the side, play with zero interest and score few runs, and deny the young players chances.

I was just not even aware until recently that Cox was ever a keeper. Surely, Duckett must've kept more recently than Cox.

 

[GIMH]

I was just not even aware until recently that Cox was ever a keeper. Surely, Duckett must've kept more recently than Cox.

Not going to want our opener to keep though are we

 

[Molehill]

Not going to want our opener to keep though are we

No, clearly not. Just pointing out that the bloke we are going to get to keep doesn't seem to have any recent previous of doing so.....and is surely unlikely to ever again. It's just such a weird selection that is open to so much criticism if it goes **** up.

 

[Chin Music]

The squad will train in Stellenbosch from 25 November to 16 December as preparation for the upcoming series against South Africa Men U19s in January and February 2025.

England Men U19s training squad:
Tazeem Ali (Warwickshire)
Ben Dawkins (Kent)
Jaydn Denly (Kent)
Rocky Flintoff (Lancashire)
Kesh Fonseka (Lancashire)
Alex French (Surrey)
Alex Green (Leicestershire)
Jack Home (Worcestershire)
James Isbell (Middlesex)
Eddie Jack (Hampshire)
Ben Mayes (Hampshire)
James Minto (Durham)
Joe Moores (Lancashire)
Thomas Rew (Somerset)
Aaryan Sawant (Middlesex)
Naavya Sharma (Middlesex)
Archie Vaughan (Somerset)
Alexander Wade (Yorkshire)

England Men U19s Head Coach, Mike Yardy, said: “It’s an exciting winter for this group of players. Firstly, a training camp to develop individual skills and be very clear on a style of play. This is then followed by a competitive series versus South Africa in both white and red ball cricket."

Quite a few sons of/relative of former players with Vaughan and Flintoff but Denly and Moores being nephews of former England player and coach.

 

[Chin Music]

I was just not even aware until recently that Cox was ever a keeper. Surely, Duckett must've kept more recently than Cox.

I have to admit that I wonder about the strategic thinking here. Some of the decisions I've disagreed with, such as Lawrence as opener/spinner selections etc, but they at least had a strategy. Picking someone who hasn't done much keeping seems utterly absurd when surely Robinson or Rew were more natural choices for keeper/bat.

 

[Molehill]

I have to admit that I wonder about the strategic thinking here. Some of the decisions I've disagreed with, such as Lawrence as opener/spinner selections etc, but they at least had a strategy. Picking someone who hasn't done much keeping seems utterly absurd when surely Robinson or Rew were more natural choices for keeper/bat.

If you were picking a bloke for just one series then even someone like Simpson should've been considered. Had a stellar season with the bat (averaged 75 I think) and an excellent keeper. I'm just not sure how this really helps Cox, how does batting in an alien position having kept wicket show him in his best light? It would actually make more sense for him to bat 3 and Pope keep and bat 7.