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*Official* New Zealand tour of India 2024

S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
silentstriker said:
Respect to NZ. Did not expect this. They are so close to winning their first series in India, which, at this point, is the most difficult achievement in cricket. It's very cool, though it has been painful as an Indian fan to watch.

India have some tough questions ahead, especially with some of the seniors.
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Yeah NZ played gutsy cricket throughout.
 
A

Arachnodouche

International Captain
silentstriker said:
Respect to NZ. Did not expect this. They are so close to winning their first series in India, which, at this point, is the most difficult achievement in cricket. It's very cool, though it has been painful as an Indian fan to watch.

India have some tough questions ahead, especially with some of the seniors.
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Yeah, as much as Kiwi fans here hate this line of complimenting, couldn't happen to a nicer lot either and I mean that. The way they conduct themselves, always have, is a real credit to the game.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Prince EWS said:
It's apparently too difficult to actually determine which specific part of the ball hit the pad first, so they just have it pause the time of impact and then see how much of the ball was in line at the time.

I've spoken to @Spark about this before, but the predictive part of the Hawkeye is actually much more reliable than the impact part, which is counter intuitive as you'd think measuring what actually happened would be easier than measuring what would have without the pad there.

Even a lot of the margin for error in the predictive path is based on the fact that it can get the impact slightly wrong and map it incorrectly based on that, especially if it hits two things (like both pads).
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There's also complications surrounding inelastic interactions between the ball and pad just after contact which are basically impossible to model correctly and usually occur between frames, which adds a pretty substantial amount of uncertainty to the impact point assessment. The prediction is just based on way way more data.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Daemon said:
Yeah veering into armchair psychoanalysis territory here but it’s happened a lot. They give up very very quickly when things don’t go their way. Usually you see it when a catch is dropped or after a few boundaries, but also the way they react in frustration when there’s a play and miss as though every single one deserves to find the edge is kinda telling.
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The difference in mentality between when Kohli at his best was leading this side and right now is really vast. For better or worse, all sporting teams end up adopting the personality of their leader and Kohli/Shastri absolutely had a better handle on the macro-level mental aspect of the game than the current leadership does.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
But yeah the lack of... intensity, for want of a better word, in that last session from India was really odd to see. Even as the situation was getting genuinely critical and they had new batsmen at the crease, there didn't seem to be any concerted effort to really up the pressure, get the crowd involved, get fielders squeezing in to cut off singles, force batsmen to take risks etc etc. Instead Latham, Mitchell and Blundell were allowed to just play themselves in and get singles in their favoured areas with shots they found comfortable. It just seemed... very relaxed, and that's not something you associate with sides batting against Ashwin and Jadeja on a turning Indian pitch. Even sides batting well.

I distinctly remember in 2017 series against us, in that 2nd Test when India were in serious danger of conceding a significant and likely decisive first innings lead (which likely would have decided the series then and there given how flat Ranchi turned out to be), Kohli deliberately chose to go hyper-confrontational, whip up the crowd, get in the batsmen's faces etc etc. It worked and they turned that game - and series - around. That sort of thing was really needed today IMO.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
honestbharani said:
As I have often said before, the most disappointing thing is not the bad shots or the bad catching or even the bad calls or decision making by the captain and management. It is how "down" this side seems to get when things go against them. A far cry from the never say die side we had earlier that won us the BGT in 2021. Strangely enough, only the last 15-20 mins seemed like a regular passage of test match from an Indian side bowling when fields were set decently, bowlers bowled to the field and batsmen were challenged at least somewhat.

They just seem to expect some magic to happen when they are bowling and they are well behind in the game and when it doesn't happen within the first half hour or so, the shoulders and heads just drop, starting with Rohit. We saw it in the 2022 T20 WC semi, we saw it in the ODI WC final, we saw some of it in the WTC final in 2023 and we are seeing it now here. It is ok to have bad days as cricketers, yes, it sucks and the criticism, even here at CW, can be pretty bad but human beings are bound to make mistakes. Its the entire "all in" approach when in strife and not really trying to buckle down and keep the fight going that gets to me. It seems to be the one departure since Shastri quit as coach. In the whole Virat Vs Rohit captaincy debates, that is perhaps a factor that has been overlooked.

I definitely did feel we would bowl better and that the game was far from over inspite of the 103 run lead but the way the heads dropped when the close LBW was not given and then a few other breaks went the Kiwis way, shows this side just does not have the bottle for the long and hard fight. They are great front runners and they are great at coming back when the counter punch sticks, but much like Rocky in that loss to Lang in Rocky 3, this side just seems to go windless if the initial punches dont inflict the damage they expect it to. I honestly do not see anything other than a 150+ run win for NZ from here.

To their credit, I dont think the side have ever asked for any sort of pitches under anyone since the 2015 turners against RSA. And they have played in all sorts of conditions within India and kept winning. I think they just underestimated NZ, looked too far ahead in trying to make a positive play to win the test in Bangalore, made 2 stupid decisions, could not bat well enough as they had never prepared for the conditions to be like that and have been playing catch-up ever since. In a paradoxical way, our bowling at Southee and our batting against the second (and third) new ball in Bangalore is probably gonna be the reason we lose our home streak, than us playing poorly on a wicket that is aiding spin here. They underestimated and were complacent against NZ in Bangalore, overcompensated by going too aggressive on the spin option here and are now staring down a very humiliating series loss.
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Honestly it was a freak overcast morning session collapse in the first test, otherwise even if India lost this test, they almost certainly wouldn't be losing the series.

India definitely did underestimate NZ though. Part of me thinks their minds are already focused on the Aus series and this one skipped under.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Spark said:
The difference in mentality between when Kohli at his best was leading this side and right now is really vast. For better or worse, all sporting teams end up adopting the personality of their leader and Kohli/Shastri absolutely had a better handle on the macro-level mental aspect of the game than the current leadership does.
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It's not been all that bad under Rohit until this series. The results have been more or less similar if not better than Kohlis time.

Having the team relaxed actually does lead to some better outcomes as opposed to Kohlis constant pressure cooker.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
Spark said:
There's also complications surrounding inelastic interactions between the ball and pad just after contact which are basically impossible to model correctly and usually occur between frames, which adds a pretty substantial amount of uncertainty to the impact point assessment. The prediction is just based on way way more data.
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Sounds like they should just go with the middle of the ball then tbh
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
Spark said:
I think they've lost as many home tests in the last two years as they had in, like, the last eight.
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Not counting this series, they lost against England and Aus just like Kohli did in his last series.

Obviously we have to account for teams adapting somewhat to India over time.
 
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