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England XI vs India XI (since 1970)

Which test team since 1970 is stronger?


  • Total voters
    17

Patience and Accuracy+Gut

State Vice-Captain
India-Pak Combined Xi

Sehwag
Gavaskar
Dravid
Sachin
Miandad
Kohli
Pant+
Imran*
Ashwin
Wasim
Waqar

Combined

Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Sachin
Root
Miandad / Kohli
Knott+
Imran*
Wasim
Trueman
Barnes

Sad to miss Waqar. Mention to Sutcliffe, Gavasker etc.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
I simply don't find Hobbs to be comparable to modern players in anything but an extremely abstract numbers (rather than real comparison of cricketing skills) sense.
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
England’s ATG Xi

Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hutton
Hammond (4)
Root
Jardine*
Knott+
Larwood (3)
Laker (4)
Trueman (2)
Barnes (1)
Jardine?? I know he was an ATG captain, but wouldn't be in the top 30 England batsmen. I don't even think he'd be in the top 50.

Also, since Joe Root's offspin is available I think Verity would give better balance to the attack as well as strengthening the tail.
 

Coronis

International Coach
Jardine?? I know he was an ATG captain, but wouldn't be in the top 30 England batsmen. I don't even think he'd be in the top 50.

Also, since Joe Root's offspin is available I think Verity would give better balance to the attack as well as strengthening the tail.
Bit of an overexaggeration imo.

Bloke’s obviously (and rightly so) mainly remembered for bodyline but he wasn’t half bad with a bat in hand.

@capt_Luffy need to see your top 50 English batsmen
 

Johan

State Vice-Captain
Yeah I think post War English side should beat the India side as long as we don't arbitrarily lock out players because they played a few matches before the war.

Sir Len Hutton (C)
Sir Geoffrey Boycott
Ken Barrington
Joe Root
Denis Compton
Sir Ian Botham
Alan Knott (W.K)
Brian Statham
James Anderson
Derek Underwood
Fred Trueman

should do the trick, maybe would've to take out Statham or Underwood for certain conditions tho, add in Pietersen or Dexter to strengthen the batting at 6.
 
Last edited:

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Bit of an overexaggeration imo.

Bloke’s obviously (and rightly so) mainly remembered for bodyline but he wasn’t half bad with a bat in hand.

@capt_Luffy need to see your top 50 English batsmen
I'm pretty sure he has his top 100 English bats done already.
For all FC and Test games (Test precedence ofcourse):
  1. WG Grace
  2. Jack Hobbs
  3. Len Hutton
  4. Wally Hammond
  5. Herbert Sutcliffe
  6. KS Ranjitsinhji
  7. Ken Barrington
  8. Joe Root
  9. Denis Compton
  10. Geoff Boycott
  11. Peter May
  12. Arthur Shrewsbury
  13. Alaistar Cook
  14. Kevin Pietersen
  15. Colin Cowdrey
  16. Graham Gooch
  17. David Gower
  18. Ted Dexter
  19. Graham Thorpe
  20. Patsy Hendren
  21. Archie Maclaren
  22. Stanley Jackson
  23. CB Fry
  24. Alec Stewart
  25. Dennis Amiss
  26. Maurice Leyland
  27. Tom Graveney
  28. Phil Mead
  29. Eddie Paynter
  30. John Edrich
  31. Frank Woolley
  32. Tom Hayward
  33. KS Duleepsinhji
  34. Jonathan Trott
  35. Marcus Trescothick
  36. Robin Smith
  37. Allan Steel
  38. Ian Bell
  39. Mike Atherton
  40. Cyril Washbrook
  41. Douglas Jardine
  42. Ernest Tyldesly
  43. Johnny Tyldesly
  44. Michael Vaughan
  45. Andrew Strauss
  46. Joe Hardstaff Jr
  47. Bill Edrich
  48. Jack Russell Sr
  49. Bobby Abel
  50. Ben Stokes
  51. Harry Brook
  52. Allan Lamb
  53. Andy Sandham
  54. Colin Milburn
  55. Basil D'Oliveira
  56. Tony Greig
  57. Ian Botham
  58. Graeme Hick
  59. Peter Richardson
  60. Reggie Spooner
  61. Paul Collingwood
  62. Matt Prior
  63. Jack Robertson
  64. Plum Warner
  65. Andrew Stoddard
  66. George Gunn
  67. Nassir Hussain
  68. Mike Gatting
  69. Bob Wyatt
  70. Cyril Walters
  71. George Ulyett
  72. Raman Subha Row
  73. Chris Broad
  74. Jonny Barstow
  75. Mark Ramprakash
  76. Ben Duckett
  77. Mark Butcher
  78. Peter Parfitt
  79. Keith Fletcher
  80. Tip Foster
  81. Les Ames
  82. Gilbert Jessop
  83. Andrew Flintoff
  84. Walter Reed
  85. Geoff Pullar
  86. Reg Simpson
  87. Gary Balance
  88. Alan Knott
  89. Derek Randall
  90. Mike Denness
  91. Mike Smith
  92. Alan Watkins
  93. Bob Barber
  94. Ollie Pope
  95. Graeme Fowler
  96. Zak Crawley
  97. Phil Sharpe
  98. Chris Radley
  99. Bob Woolmer
  100. Percy Holmes
 
Last edited:

ma1978

International Debutant
Rugby isn’t close to cricket in the UK, in participation, money or
Yeah I think post War English side should beat the India side as long as we don't arbitrarily lock out players because they played a few matches before the war.

Sir Len Hutton (C)
Sir Geoffrey Boycott
Ken Barrington
Joe Root
Denis Compton
Sir Ian Botham
Alan Knott (W.K)
Brian Statham
James Anderson
Derek Underwood
Fred Trueman

should do the trick, maybe would've to take out Statham or Underwood for certain conditions tho, add in Pietersen or Dexter to strengthen the batting at 6.
Nah - doesn’t bat deep. Only real advantage is pace bowling and that’s not huge. Batting for India is a decent amount better and India bats down to 9
 

Johan

State Vice-Captain
Rugby isn’t close to cricket in the UK, in participation, money or


Nah - doesn’t bat deep. Only real advantage is pace bowling and that’s not huge. Batting for India is a decent amount better and India bats down to 9
The bowling gap is pretty huge, and you can always have someone come in for one of the four pacers (Statham probably), like Dexter for 6 and then you'd have batting down to 8 via Knott.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
The bowling gap is pretty huge, and you can always have someone come in for one of the four pacers (Statham probably), like Dexter for 6 and then you'd have batting down to 8 via Knott.
Nah. England has a very clear advantage there, and clearly ahead, but nothing huge really.
Trueman>Bumrah
Anderson=Ashwin
Botham=Dev
Underwood>Jadeja
Statham>Shami

The batting difference is bigger imho, much bigger:

Tendulkar>Hutton
Gavaskar>Barrington
Dravid>Root
Kohli=>Compton
Sehwag<Boycott
Pant>>Knott
Dev=<Botham
Jadeja>>>>Statham
Ashwin>>Underwood

And now, if we drop Statham for Dexter, the bowling turns weaker. I
 

Johan

State Vice-Captain
Nah. England has a very clear advantage there, and clearly ahead, but nothing huge really.
Trueman>Bumrah
Anderson=Ashwin
Botham=Dev
Underwood>Jadeja
Statham>Shami

The batting difference is bigger imho, much bigger:

Tendulkar>Hutton
Gavaskar>Barrington
Dravid>Root
Kohli=>Compton
Sehwag<Boycott
Pant>>Knott
Dev=<Botham
Jadeja>>>>Statham
Ashwin>>Underwood

And now, if we drop Statham for Dexter, the bowling turns weaker. I
I won't really do the comparision that way, I prefer to do Batsmen comparision pretty much correspondingly to their position, so for me it's like

Hutton>Gavaskar
Boycott>Sehwag
Barrington~Dravid
Tendulkar>Root
Kohli~Compton
Pant>Botham
Knott~Kapil
Jadeja>>Statham
Ashwin>>Underwood

I personally feel like Trueman/Statham/Botham/Anderson as a pace attack is way better than Bumrah/Shami/Dev, I'll say Trueman/Botham/Anderson would be way more potent as well.

in SENW, I cannot really see the Indian side winning, their pace bowling isn't potent enough for victory in those conditions imo. In Ind and SL, the extra spinner advantage would properly activate and England would lose sure, Australia I have nothing to comment on that one, but overall I'm of the belief pace bowling is the vital component to test victories and thus, believe that England would win outside of spinning conditions.

on a flatter wicket, might tag in Dexter for Statham to equalize the batting.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
I won't really do the comparision that way, I prefer to do Batsmen comparision pretty much correspondingly to their position, so for me it's like

Hutton>Gavaskar
Boycott>Sehwag
Barrington~Dravid
Tendulkar>Root
Kohli~Compton
Pant>Botham
Knott~Kapil
Jadeja>>Statham
Ashwin>>Underwood

I personally feel like Trueman/Statham/Botham/Anderson as a pace attack is way better than Bumrah/Shami/Dev, I'll say Trueman/Botham/Anderson would be way more potent as well.

in SENW, I cannot really see the Indian side winning, their pace bowling isn't potent enough for victory in those conditions imo. In Ind and SL, the extra spinner advantage would properly activate and England would lose sure, Australia I have nothing to comment on that one, but overall I'm of the belief pace bowling is the vital component to test victories and thus, believe that England would win outside of spinning conditions.

on a flatter wicket, might tag in Dexter for Statham to equalize the batting.
For me, Gavaskar and Hutton are also around equal and would use >> for SRT and Root, but get the idea. The thing is, the difference between the two teams batting is more than a specialist Great batsman. I think it's a really significant difference, which only becomes around equal (not even England gets the advantage) on doing something like taking Dexter. Now, what I don't agree with is Trueman - Anderson - Botham being much more potent than Bumrah - Dev - Shami. Especially since even the two ATG English pacers were only truly top class at home and relatively struggled away. Among the pacers here, the best in Australia and WI are actually Bumrah and Dev!!!
 

Johan

State Vice-Captain
For me, Gavaskar and Hutton are also around equal and would use >> for SRT and Root, but get the idea. The thing is, the difference between the two teams batting is more than a specialist Great batsman. I think it's a really significant difference, which only becomes around equal (not even England gets the advantage) on doing something like taking Dexter. Now, what I don't agree with is Trueman - Anderson - Botham being much more potent than Bumrah - Dev - Shami. Especially since even the two ATG English pacers were only truly top class at home and relatively struggled away. Among the pacers here, the best in Australia and WI are actually Bumrah and Dev!!!
I don't really think the gap between the two sides is of an ATG specialist bat because I don't think Ashwin and Jadeja would be factors that can contribute hundreds of a 50+ avg combined against an ATG bowling attack, plus if it becomes a flat track I'll always get Dexter in so Jadeja would be against Knott instead of Statham. Trueman > Bumrah was a rating you yourself did, I do think Jimmy is a significant distance ahead of Kapil (I had him ahead of Waqar even if you remember) and I do think Statham is a decent bit better than Shami and Botham is entirely a bonus so the gap would be in the favour of the English side and I personally feel it's by a margin. For Windies, modern windies wickets haven't been flat like 60s ones and measurement of movement shows that Windies has pretty much been a swing bowler's heaven in recent years so I believe the English side would've an advantage in those conditions.

I didn't comment on Austrailia, mainly because there are too many variables in a series of these sides down under, and I don't know if the English bowlers struggled with Australia or in Australia if you catch my meaning
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't really think the gap between the two sides is of an ATG specialist bat because I don't think Ashwin and Jadeja would be factors that can contribute hundreds of a 50+ avg combined against an ATG bowling attack, plus if it becomes a flat track I'll always get Dexter in so Jadeja would be against Knott instead of Statham. Trueman > Bumrah was a rating you yourself did, I do think Jimmy is a significant distance ahead of Kapil (I had him ahead of Waqar even if you remember) and I do think Statham is a decent bit better than Shami and Botham is entirely a bonus so the gap would be in the favour of the English side and I personally feel it's by a margin. For Windies, modern windies wickets haven't been flat like 60s ones and measurement of movement shows that Windies has pretty much been a swing bowler's heaven in recent years so I believe the English side would've an advantage in those conditions.

I didn't comment on Austrailia, mainly because there are too many variables in a series of these sides down under, and I don't know if the English bowlers struggled with Australia or in Australia if you catch my meaning
In recent years, WI also makes some pretty good turners, but I suffice. I think you can't just differentiate between spin and seam like that for bowling. If the ball turns, Ashwin will be shambolic. Now, what I believe from country to country, England will win pretty easily in England and NZ, India in India and Sri Lanka, with a big advantage in Pakistan, as you know, ball still turns there more than spins. If we count UAE or Bangladesh then there also, but for now let's don't. Of the remaining, I think India will have the advantage in WI, as spinners also have done great there in recent times, especially Ashwin. In South Africa, I will give the advantage to England, as I think their bowling will be there much more important, but in really bad wickets, India will have the advantage for better batting (ATG or not, Jadeja and Ashwin in comparison to tail enders are a significant boost). In Australia, I catch your meaning, and am not sure either..... But for now, will give India the slight upper hand.
 

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