Jacques Kallis vs Ricky Ponting

[subshakerz]

Once we remove Bangladesh and Zimbabwe stat padding from Kallis' record (since Ponting barely played them) and account for the fact that Ponting artificially extended his retirement by 2-3 lame years years as his team needed it, Ponting just on raw numbers should be ahead.

Add to the fact that Ponting was one of the most dominant bats of any era and scored runs @15 runs faster while batting at no.3, plus is ahead of peer rating too as a bat, and he should easily be ahead.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Once we remove Bangladesh and Zimbabwe stat padding from Kallis' record (since Ponting barely played them) and account for the fact that Ponting artificially extended his retirement by 2-3 lame years years as his team needed it, Ponting just on raw numbers should be ahead.

Add to the fact that Ponting was one of the most dominant bats of any era and scored runs @15 runs faster while batting at no.3, plus is ahead of peer rating too as a bat, and he should easily be ahead.

Once we add the bowling load Kallis has and add to that the disparity in home conditions and that he himself had a bad last few years; the difference in their averages is quite reflective of the gap between them.

 

[kyear2]

Once we add the bowling load Kallis has and add to that the disparity in home conditions and that he himself had a bad last few years; the difference in their averages is quite reflective of the gap between them.

You had me up until that sentence.

 

[honestbharani]

WTAF is "artificially extending one's retirement"??

 

[capt_Luffy]

WTAF is "artificially extending one's retirement"??

It's a way of saying playing matches and not scoring runs..... Like how Virat Kohli "artificially extended" his retirement post 2020.

 

[kyear2]

WTAF is "artificially extending one's retirement"??

He knew he was past it and stayed on be used the team needed him

 

[honestbharani]

So basically, player had late career fall but its a player I like, so I find a way to make it seem like it does not count.

 

[Coronis]

iirc James Anderson artificially extended his debut.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

iirc James Anderson artificially extended his debut.

It’s ok since he clearly did it for the team!

 

[kyear2]

So basically, player had late career fall but its a player I like, so I find a way to make it seem like it does not count.

You asked a question and I answered.

 

[honestbharani]

Lara artificially extended his retirement in the middle of his career too. Strange how careers work out sometimes.

 

[subshakerz]

Once we add the bowling load Kallis has and add to that the disparity in home conditions and that he himself had a bad last few years; the difference in their averages is quite reflective of the gap between them.

The bowling load is irrelevant. I can't believe you would even give that point.

Kallis' home conditions sure is a feather in his cap though a somewhat overstated point on CW.

 

[subshakerz]

WTAF is "artificially extending one's retirement"??

Ponting admitted that he would have retired 3 or 4 years earlier but the team was too young and there weren't decent bats to replace him yet.

I am willing to discount then him for having a longer than normal dip towards the end. Same as I also account for the impact on record for a player who debuts exceptionally young.

Ponting's stunning retirement admission

Ex-skipper's thinly-veiled swipe at Michael Clarke

www.google.com

 

[kyear2]

The bowling load is irrelevant. I can't believe you would even give that point.

Kallis' home conditions sure is a feather in his cap though a somewhat overstated point on CW.

Think bowling is actually a valid point. For Kallis less than Sobers, but still must have been a bit of an additional burden to over come.

 

[subshakerz]

Think bowling is actually a valid point. For Kallis less than Sobers, but still must have been a bit of an additional burden to over come.

I am not giving extra batting points to Kallis for that. That is a basic expectation as an all-rounder to manage dual roles. Besides, we are talking an overage of 10 overs an innings.

 

[Coronis]

Ponting admitted that he would have retired 3 or 4 years earlier but the team was too young and there weren't decent bats to replace him yet.

I am willing to discount then him for having a longer than normal dip towards the end. Same as I also account for the impact on record for a player who debuts exceptionally young.

Ponting's stunning retirement admission

Ex-skipper's thinly-veiled swipe at Michael Clarke

www.google.com

So he would have retired at 34 like AB and KP and Cook? Wouldn’t be criticised for that either.

 

[Bolo.]

Kallis' home conditions sure is a feather in his cap though a somewhat overstated point on CW.

Do you think this is true in relation to Ponting? I don't think conditions were that different between AUS and RSA at the start of their careers, but they diverged pretty heavily.

Look at the 3 highest averaging bats from each team from the 2000s, who have counterparts with comparable batting positions and overall records.

Hayden, Clarke and Hussey averaged about 41 away and 60 home.
Smith, Amla and AB averaged about 45 home and 52 away.

Obviously, these six are a wonky sample, and runs in RSA were not worth ~70% more. But they were worth a lot more. More than a feather in the cap for Kallis. Unless you are a big believer in away records being >>> home records. Which I do kinda agree with. But which still reflects extremely well on Kallis.

 

[Johan]

Overall Average in Australia in the 2000s – 34.2

Overall Average in South Africa in the 2000s – 30.49

Yikes

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's not really a one to one comparison tbf because in SA , Kallis isn't facing his own pace bowlers who exploited those conditions better than anyone else. But yeah, definitely tougher conditions to bat in overall in that era than Australia.

 

[Johan]

It's not really a one to one comparison tbf because in SA , Kallis isn't facing his own pace bowlers who exploited those conditions better than anyone else. But yeah, definitely tougher conditions to bat in overall in that era than Australia.

this is actually true, upon taking a closer look it reveals that South Africa in South Africa have the average of 36 while Australia is Australia is 45 tho take this with a grain of salt because 2000s Australia was a monster side, RSA definitely seems tougher tho.