Ricky Ponting vs James Anderson

[capt_Luffy]

Ponting got 16 motm awards in 168 tests despite huge competition from players in his team, whilst Anderson only got 8 in 188 despite far less competition.

Furthermore, Ponting would've been a guaranteed starter for every other team through 90% of his career, whereas Anderson wouldn't have made the XI for Australia, South Africa, and NZ for a number of years.

Anderson would had still played more matches Ponting playing for any team in the world. As re the first point, Ashwin has 11 mots, more than anyone but Murali, despite having a big competition.

 

[GIMH]

When wouldn’t Anderson have made the NZ side?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

When wouldn’t Anderson have made the NZ side?

When he averaged 35

 

[GIMH]

When he averaged 35

I mean he still averaged 35+ in 2009 at which point he’d have walked into the NZ side

 

[Thala_0710]

Anderson averaged 22 for 13 years across all conditions. Ponting is ATG nowhere but at home and arguably South Africa.

Those are nice stats but he didn't have particularly many great performances even in that time frame though. One good tour to Aus and a couple of good matches in NZ, SA and IND and that's pretty much it. Also, just base stats don't tell the whole story. Anderson has a series in IND where he avgs a brilliant 15.88. One would think that's an ATG series, rather he only picked 8 wkts in 3 tests. Anderson could bowl useful long dry spells, but he had not nearly the impact of other great bowlers like Steyn, so this should be Ponting. Whether it close or not, might be debatable.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea it’s Anderson’s WPM that’s the issue, not his averages

 

[capt_Luffy]

Those are nice stats but he didn't have particularly many great performances even in that time frame though. One good tour to Aus and a couple of good matches in NZ, SA and IND and that's pretty much it. Also, just base stats don't tell the whole story. Anderson has a series in IND where he avgs a brilliant 15.88. One would think that's an ATG series, rather he only picked 8 wkts in 3 tests. Anderson could bowl useful long dry spells, but he had not nearly the impact of other great bowlers like Steyn, so this should be Ponting. Whether it close or not, might be debatable.

Oh, this is Ponting. I don't think Anderson is ahead, but from one home bully to another; a bowler working ass off for 20+ years definitely deserves points. I also think his overall average of 30 in India is too harsh and he is the best foreign pacer here to take atleast 15 wickets except Steyn since 2010s.

 

[BazBall21]

Anderson's relative lack of destructiveness (especially overseas) is a reasonable caveat and why I myself don't rate him as highly as the average England supporter. Allegations like "poor for two thirds/half his career" and "he was always average away from home" etc are false and likely fulled by the pesky English media giving him an inflated status.

 

[BazBall21]

Oh, this is Ponting. I don't think Anderson is ahead, but from one home bully to another; a bowler working ass off for 20+ years definitely deserves points. I also think his overall average of 30 in India is too harsh and he is the best foreign pacer here to take atleast 15 wickets except Steyn since 2010s.

Anderson generally very good in Asia after he turned the corner in the 2010-11 ashes.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Oh, this is Ponting. I don't think Anderson is ahead, but from one home bully to another; a bowler working ass off for 20+ years definitely deserves points. I also think his overall average of 30 in India is too harsh and he is the best foreign pacer here to take atleast 15 wickets except Steyn since 2010s.

Southee (who should have been dropped 18 months ago to bring through new talent) was better than Anderson in India. I just REALLY hope he isn't playing on Wednesday.

 

[BazBall21]

Those are nice stats but he didn't have particularly many great performances even in that time frame though. One good tour to Aus and a couple of good matches in NZ, SA and IND and that's pretty much it. Also, just base stats don't tell the whole story. Anderson has a series in IND where he avgs a brilliant 15.88. One would think that's an ATG series, rather he only picked 8 wkts in 3 tests. Anderson could bowl useful long dry spells, but he had not nearly the impact of other great bowlers like Steyn, so this should be Ponting. Whether it close or not, might be debatable.

He did well in UAE and Pakistan too

 

[BazBall21]

Ponting was poor in one country (India) and had an excellent record against all countries. He was the best bat of the 2000s.

Anderson was terrible in Australia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, okay in India (tough place for seamers) and mediocre to poor in NZ (figures in the latter greatly inflated by a pink ball test and far worse than NZ). He also had an appalling record vs Australia at home, which is why many Aussies saw Broad as far more of a threat.

Add in ATG fielding and Ponting's leadership, this isn't close.

Don't think Anderson was terrible in Australia on the whole despite them being his least suited conditions. Certainly not spearhead material there but he was an able support bowler after the first tour and played a big role in England winning in 2010-11 on some very flat pitches. Had 3 out of 4 good tests in SL after he came good too. He was poor before 2010. Not arguing against Ponting being clearly better though.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Southee (who should have been dropped 18 months ago to bring through new talent) was better than Anderson in India. I just REALLY hope he isn't playing on Wednesday.

Southee was really World Class in India for one innings though. Outside of it, he averages 40.

 

[BazBall21]

Yea it’s Anderson’s WPM that’s the issue, not his averages

Not a very destructive bowler. He was increasingly consistent as his career wore on but he wasn't a strike bowler and he didn't bowl enough to be a stock bowler.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Not a very destructive bowler. He was increasingly consistent as his career wore on but he wasn't a strike bowler and he didn't bowl enough to be a stock bowler.

His accuracy and skill is ATG level imo but on flat pitches I think you need a bit more pace/bounce which he lacked compared to other great quicks.

 

[Thala_0710]

Yea it’s Anderson’s WPM that’s the issue, not his averages

That's definitely true. Of all 52 cricketers to take 250+ test wkts, Anderson only ranks 39th on WPM. Even Botham pips him on this metric

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah Botham's WPM before he really fell off was genuinely incredible for an all rounder. Probably contributed to a severe decline, not just the other stuff...

 

[kyear2]

I think everyone agrees that Ponting v Donald is quite close

I doubt many think Donald v Anderson is close?

There's levels to this.

 

[kyear2]

Nope. I don't think Ponting vs Donald is particularly much closer than Donald vs Anderson. A bit closer, but nothing significant. IMHO, Ponting vs Anderson is definitely closer than Ponting vs Donald.

What?

 

[Fuller Pilch]

When wouldn’t Anderson have made the NZ side?

Averages of seam bowlers with 15+ wickets in NZ 2000-present:

Sidebottom 17
Jamieson 17.4
Lee 17.5
McGrath 18.4
Oram 18.8
Bond 19.8
Asif 19.8
Caddick 19.8
Philander 23
Morkel 25
Boult 25
Tuffey 25.1
Edwards 25.1
Hazelwood 25.4
Henry 26
Malinga 27.1
Wagner 27.2
Cairns 27.4
Broad 28
Ishant 28.1
Southee 28.1
Zaheer 28.3
Anderson 28.4