*OFFICIAL* England in Pakistan 2024

[Molehill]

I was thinking this, in my early years on this forum it felt like every other Test was on this sort of deck and you tuned out by about day 3.

Related, in that period it felt like every summer England would have one home Test, usually at Lord’s, where on a motorway we’d declare on the 4th evening after setting a target of 420, and the captains would shake hands at about 4 wickets down on 5pm on the Monday.

In reality it probably only happened once or twice, but.

There was definitely a period where the Lord's pitch just got deader and deader as a match progressed and generally finished in a stale draw. That Sri Lanka game where Freddie bowled himself into retirement being the obvious example.

 

[chris.hinton]

Pakistan have to sack all their staff

 

[Silver Silva]

It should be a no brainer really. Better bowler, fielder and bat.

The more immediate selection headache is what happens if Stokes is fit for the 2nd Test. I suspect he can't bowl the kind of overs Carse put in so he's really a batsman only. So therefore, the only spot he could conceivably take is Pope's!!

Really I would have thought Woakes would have to be dropped if Stokes is fit

 

[Molehill]

Fair point, may just go all-seam and Root bowling any spin where needed

If Stokes can bowl by then, there's probably space for Leach and 3 other seamers. Woakes, Potts and Atkinson looks the obvious combo for those pitches.

 

[GIMH]

If Stokes can bowl by then, there's probably space for Leach and 3 other seamers. Woakes, Potts and Atkinson looks the obvious combo for those pitches.

Carse had a good game though.

Atkinson the only seamer I’d say is a cert now

 

[Spark]

This match makes me feel a little old, when I was younger, there used to be a pitch like this every month (2000s), today it's a single country thing.

Sri Lankan Tests used to be pretty infamous for this, especially the SSC. But for about the last decade they've put up interesting pitches pretty consistently. India obviously has also gotten far more challenging to bat on since those days.

 

[Molehill]

Carse had a good game though.

Atkinson the only seamer I’d say is a cert now

I agree, Carse surprised me, but he did exactly what was needed, banged it in hard and put in some proper hard graft (and I also agree it's probably something you wouldn't guarantee getting out of Robinson). Whether that's the requirement for NZ pitches, not so sure. Mind you, Wagner made a career out of that so there probably is a role there for it.

 

[BazBall21]

These wickets are natural in Pakistan and they were never significantly different. Subtle differences here and there era by era but nothing drastic.

The difference is they used to have bowlers who were better than bowlers from other countries at taking the pitches out of the equation. Now these tracks no longer give them a home advantage.

And while I understand the animosity towards the pitches because they are dull and there's probably an element of "if we're going to lose can we at least see some interesting games" but I don't think any kind of track hands Pakistan a distinct advantage because it's not a strong bowling attack in any department. They are stuck.

An Asian team lacking decent spinners is a killer unless they have God-like fast bowlers. Pakistan is much harsher to spin than other Asian countries but with decent spinners they could at least play more of an attritional game and possibly bank on the 4th innings.

 

[mackembhoy]

I think it got posted on here it was a record. But not the case.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1844588738434957557

 

[BazBall21]

I agree, Carse surprised me, but he did exactly what was needed, banged it in hard and put in some proper hard graft (and I also agree it's probably something you wouldn't guarantee getting out of Robinson). Whether that's the requirement for NZ pitches, not so sure. Mind you, Wagner made a career out of that so there probably is a role there for it.

Don't think Carse is accurate enough to emulate Wagner. Need to be relentless to keep the pressure up. His action is harsher on his back too so it could be less physically sustainable.

 

[GIMH]

I agree, Carse surprised me, but he did exactly what was needed, banged it in hard and put in some proper hard graft (and I also agree it's probably something you wouldn't guarantee getting out of Robinson). Whether that's the requirement for NZ pitches, not so sure. Mind you, Wagner made a career out of that so there probably is a role there for it.

Yeah, also I slightly misread your post and thought you were talking about the next Test here. I’d agree that’s the NZ away seam attack

 

[King Kane]

These wickets are natural in Pakistan and they were never significantly different. Subtle differences here and there era by era but nothing drastic.

The difference is they used to have bowlers who were better than bowlers from other countries at taking the pitches out of the equation. Now these tracks no longer give them a home advantage.

And while I understand the animosity towards the pitches because they are dull and there's probably an element of "if we're going to lose can we at least see some interesting games" but I don't think any kind of track hands Pakistan a distinct advantage because it's not a strong bowling attack in any department. They are stuck.

An Asian team lacking decent spinners is a killer unless they have God-like fast bowlers. Pakistan is much harsher to spin than other Asian countries but with decent spinners they could at least play more of an attritional game and possibly bank on the 4th innings.

Yeah the pitches aren't deliberately being made to be flat by the curators, they want more life in them for the bowlers but the conditions make it hard.

The flat pitches don't favour Pakistan at the moment with their average bowling attack, if anything they favour opposition teams with better bowlers,

 

[Molehill]

The flat pitches don't favour Pakistan at the moment with their average bowling attack, if anything they favour opposition teams with better bowlers,

What do Pakistan do from here? Will Abrar be back for the 2nd Test? There's rumours that he's suffering from a new flu strain called 35-0-174-0!!

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah the pitches aren't deliberately being made to be flat by the curators, they want more life in them for the bowlers but the conditions make it hard.

The flat pitches don't favour Pakistan at the moment with their average bowling attack, if anything they favour opposition teams with better bowlers,

Teams turn up with better batting lineups and Pakistan don't have the bowling to stop them on these pitches.

 

[BazBall21]

What do Pakistan do from here? Will Abrar be back for the 2nd Test? There's rumours that he's suffering from a new flu strain called 35-0-174-0!!

I fancy England to win 3-0. Don't think it gets better for Pakistan if result oriented tracks are brought out.

 

[PaulLennon]

I fancy England to win 3-0. Don't think it gets better for Pakistan if result oriented tracks are brought out.

Yup.

Green track and Woakes and co go through them.

Turner and I see Leach/Bashir doing well.

 

[PaulLennon]

Congrats England. Poor Pakistan. They were so good for so long in the UAE, but terrible back at home.

Even in UAE at the end they were losing series. SL 0-2 in 2017 and NZ 1-2 in 2018.

Misbah-Younis were sort of the last of the old batch. Guys who debuted when Wasim/Waqar etc were still playing. Post their retirement, they were losing in UAE too.

The problem is not with the pitches but the personnel. This team would lose in the UAE too. That 2015 era team would win/draw in Pakistan.

 

[Howe_zat]

England dropping a test at some point would be completely normal. The batting is full of glass cannons and the bowlers are inexperienced and knackered. Pakistan may be in guttural form but they're capable of making high scores on these wickets and of taking more chances than they did here.

Don't see many draws though. 2-1 most likely.

 

[Molehill]

England dropping a test at some point would be completely normal. The batting is full of glass cannons and the bowlers are inexperienced and knackered. Pakistan may be in guttural form but they're capable of making high scores on these wickets and of taking more chances than they did here.

Don't see many draws though. 2-1 most likely.

Only just seen that Pope drop from earlier today, another sitter. Did England drop 5 potential chances in this innings? Not to mention the two sitters at the end of the first innings too.

 

[morgieb]

Great stuff from Pakistan. And yet....I still don't think England are out of it. Easily could score big quickly and then put the pressure on the 3rd innings.

i guess i sometimes know what i'm talking about