Ashwin vs Kumble

[Bolo.]

Multiple sub standard pitches sounds like a complaint against SA not India tbh, given the greentops they keep making. Even with India, they've made far more good pitches than bad, so I've got no idea why this has to come up all the time.

Maybe I phrased that unclearly. I meant to say that RSA decks have been sub standard on multiple occasions that India have played there recently. Groundskeepers have not been doing the best job of it recently in general in RSA (a statement that comes with some caveats, like water shortages, and playing out of season, have made their jobs hard). But India have just (un)lucked into the worst of it.

No complaints about Indian pitches, if you think that's what I'm talking about? On the very, very rare occasion that they actually produce an absolute burner, I'm all for it. Variety is fun, and it actually gives visitors some hope of winning.

 

[Shri]

Conditions do change with time. But it's more to do with climate changing than efforts from groundskeepers. England specifically is more to do with covered pitches than anything else.

lmao yes climate change sure lets go with that

 

[Bolo.]

lmao yes climate change sure lets go with that

Is Breitbart your primary source of news?

 

[kyear2]

Not really. SA and England have prepared pitches specifically for India with less spin support, than against any other country. Mostly due to Ashwin.

And doesn't India prepare pitches much more spin friendly than any other country as well?

It's literally antithetical to how it's done the rest of the world, mostly for Ashwin...

 

[kyear2]

Yeah agreed but that's the point really. Can't be a coincidence India don't get tests at Durban and St George's, which are easily the two most favourable grounds for spin.

But how many pitches like Perth or Sabina of old, does India roll out?

 

[kyear2]

Subcontinental teams get pitches where spinners average 55, SENA teams get pitches where spinners average 29. That's all pitch doctoring.

Are we being serious right now?

Is pitch doctoring puring out "traditional" pitches or square turners where even Root is a threat?

 

[ma1978]

And doesn't India prepare pitches much more spin friendly than any other country as well?

It's literally antithetical to how it's done the rest of the world, mostly for Ashwin...

no pitches in India are barely turners these days. Look at the performance of India’s pace bowlers

 

[ma1978]

Btw I don’t mind when other countries turn out greentops or super fast pitches. It may not play to Ashwin’s strengths but it plays to India’sgiven the quality of the pace attack

 

[Xix2565]

Maybe I phrased that unclearly. I meant to say that RSA decks have been sub standard on multiple occasions that India have played there recently. Groundskeepers have not been doing the best job of it recently in general in RSA (a statement that comes with some caveats, like water shortages, and playing out of season, have made their jobs hard). But India have just (un)lucked into the worst of it.

No complaints about Indian pitches, if you think that's what I'm talking about? On the very, very rare occasion that they actually produce an absolute burner, I'm all for it. Variety is fun, and it actually gives visitors some hope of winning.

I see, my bad then.

Are we being serious right now?

Is pitch doctoring puring out "traditional" pitches or square turners where even Root is a threat?

I mean what fundamental difference is there between the problematic spinning wickets and problematic seaming wickets to say one is doctored and one isn't? This keeps happening far too often to excuse it with general incompetence or unfortunate circumstances.

It doesn't help your case when a lot of the pitches you moan about have pacers doing well on it with the appropriate skills and experience.

 

[Xix2565]

But how many pitches like Perth or Sabina of old, does India roll out?

Just had Tests at Dharamshala and Wankhede in the past few years, and Ahmedabad has had a Test where the pacers did alright with decent bounce.

It's not like Australia's got any real variety in pitches unlike the West Indies, so no clue why they're being clubbed together.

 

[OverratedSanity]

But how many pitches like Perth or Sabina of old, does India roll out?

What kind of a question is that

 

[honestbharani]

I have no problem with teams giving wickets that suit themselves when someone plays them at their home. As long as its not ridiculously one sided or dangerous, there are no issues. The problem is with RSA there have been at least 2 ridic and dangerous tracks in our last 3 tours.

Its another thing we won both those tests though. lol.

 

[PaulLennon]

And doesn't India prepare pitches much more spin friendly than any other country as well?

It's literally antithetical to how it's done the rest of the world, mostly for Ashwin...

hardly. there are a few turners here and there but most are pretty good.

the only raging turners since 2015 i would say are

2015 SA 1st and 3rd
2017 Aus 1st and 2nd
2021 Eng 3rd which was more due to the ball
2023 Aus 2nd and 3rd

That's 7 in a decade.

Others are standard Indian pitches, some even flat where Indian batsmen have racked runs plenty.

2016 NZ, 2016 Eng, 2019 SA, 2021 NZ, 2024 Eng got very fair pitches.

 

[PaulLennon]

Are we being serious right now?

Is pitch doctoring puring out "traditional" pitches or square turners where even Root is a threat?

1 match due to the pink ball

Root averages 38 with the ball in India and averaged 51 this year in the 2024 series.

Even last series in 2021 apart from the 3rd test, he didn't do anything with the ball.

 

[PaulLennon]

I have no problem with teams giving wickets that suit themselves when someone plays them at their home. As long as its not ridiculously one sided or dangerous, there are no issues. The problem is with at least RSA there have been at least 2 ridic and dangerous tracks in our last 3 tours.

Its another thing we won both those tests though. lol.

They aren't over 2015 when their great team's away run was stopped and in a sense marked the end.

2019 they got extremely fair pitches and were thumped even heavier.

 

[honestbharani]

I think the 2015-16 wickets we gave RSA were the worst and outside of outliers like Pune 2017, we have had pretty good to very good pitches almost all home games.

 

[honestbharani]

2017 Aus 2nd and 3rd

Only Pune was bad in 2017. Rest were all good pitches that just aided spin more than seam bowling.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Only Pune was bad in 2017. Rest were all good pitches that just aided spin more than seam bowling.

Pune was a turner but I don't think it was a bad pitch. The bangalore one I thought was a bit dodgy. Plenty of inconsistent bounce.

 

[honestbharani]

Pune was a turner but I don't think it was a bad pitch. The bangalore one I thought was a bit dodgy. Plenty of inconsistent bounce.

haha... I recall it being the opposite. Pune was a rank turner and the turn was inconsistent and so was the bounce. It was low but it was inconsistently low. Bangalore was red soil, so the turn was sharp but I felt it was pretty consistent.

 

[PaulLennon]

I think the 2015-16 wickets we gave RSA were the worst and outside of outliers like Pune 2017, we have had pretty good to very good pitches almost all home games.

Even there 2nd and 4th match pitches were good.

If rain had not arrived in the 2nd match, it would have been a more "traditional" India home win.