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Top pace bowlers to debut in 21st century

Johan

State Regular
He's only outbowled in Asia. Anderson is slightly ahead in ENG and NZ, while gets clearly outbowled in Aus, SA and WI. Overall, it's pretty close
Including SA and Eng are kind of dumb, they're their home grounds, both have been brilliant there but Rabada a bit moreso in SA. Aus, I'd give it to you but Anderson is EONS ahead in NZ, in WI Anderson averages 20 and Rabada 16.5, isn't really much there.

again, no matter how you slice it, a 23.8 away/neutral avg in the same timeframe Rabada averages 26.9 away, is not a good look for Rabada in the comparison.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Agree with Fuller Pitch. Boult - elite in ODI. Good but a bit overrated in Test for me. Southee ahead for his overseas peak, Wagner ahead for being such a point of difference with the old ball.
 

Red_Ink_Squid

Global Moderator
Rabada better in Australia.
In stats guru perhaps but iirc Rabada had a horror tour to Oz last time out, which his figures didn't fully reflect. Picked up a bunch of cheap slogged wickets when matches were already lost, in no small part to him bowling (uncharacteristically) awfully in his first couple of spells every Test.
 

Johan

State Regular
Boult's a big tree that casts a tiny shadow, definitely overrated in tests due to his LO accolades.
 

Thala_0710

U19 Vice-Captain
Including SA and Eng are kind of dumb, they're their home grounds, both have been brilliant there but Rabada a bit moreso in SA. Aus, I'd give it to you but Anderson is EONS ahead in NZ, in WI Anderson averages 20 and Rabada 16.5, isn't really much there.

again, no matter how you slice it, a 23.8 away/neutral avg in the same timeframe Rabada averages 26.9 away, is not a good look for Rabada in the comparison.
How exactly is Anderson eons ahead in NZ? And ofc their home conditions should be included, they play 50% of their games there! Ofc their avgs away favour Anderson (in the same period) but one can't simply ignore the earlier part of Anderson's career. Also, I have no issues in anyone putting Anderson over Rabada, but it isn't as one sided as it is being made out to be.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
In stats guru perhaps but iirc Rabada had a horror tour to Oz last time out, which his figures didn't fully reflect. Picked up a bunch of cheap slogged wickets when matches were already lost, in no small part to him bowling (uncharacteristically) awfully in his first couple of spells every Test.
Yeah. It's why I noted Anderson is much better in Asia. It's closer in Australia. Obviously Rabada has the more destructive attributes for those conditions and he had an elite tour in 2016, but he can leak on good pitches. And Anderson did do very well in 2010-11. Some really flat pitches in that series. That was near the beginning of his transition from mediocre to top class.
 

Johan

State Regular
How exactly is Anderson eons ahead in NZ? And ofc their home conditions should be included, they play 50% of their games there! Ofc their avgs away favour Anderson (in the same period) but one can't simply ignore the earlier part of Anderson's career. Also, I have no issues in anyone putting Anderson over Rabada, but it isn't as one sided as it is being made out to be.
in the timeframe we're discussing Anderson's averaged 20 in NZ and Rabada averages like 30 so yeah that's a pretty significant gap, if you include the home conditions that's fine, I already said Rabada in SA is a bit better than Anderson in England, though I'd argue SA for the majority of the last 20 years has been a much harder place to bat than Eng but I'm fine with Rabada being ahead in home conditions. and actually, with how big Anderson's career is, with how many matches, I do think the first 1/4 of it can be ignored if he was consistently brilliant for as long as he was once he found his perfect action.

Yeah, I'm simply presenting stats, if one has Rabada over Anderson I'm not going to fight over it obviously, as strange as I may find it
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Rabada definitely better at home; the gap is exaggerated a bit by English conditions being frequently quite batsman-friendly until the 'pace pandemic'. Rabada has been given almost constant bowling conditions at home, but has been pretty relentless there and has surely won them many games so still deserves the plaudits. I don't think Anderson can match him there, or even be quite as destructive if there was an equivalent stream of English bowler friendly conditions, so that is a mark in KG's favour.
 

Johan

State Regular
Yeah that's what I was saying, feel Rabada is more monstrous in SA but it's not a very big gap, definitely an advantage for Rabada.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Cummins and Bumrah have both imo hit a level Anderson never quite reached; despite Cummins' below par record in Asia and Bumrah having a very small sample. So to rate Anderson ahead of those two would imo put an excessive weight on longevity, though JA maintaining a very high level for so long would be an argument in his favour if Bumrah and Cummins severely tail off within the same length of the time Anderson was a high class performer in.

Rabada though has his flaws. Think Anderson's 2010-2023 stretch is sufficient to win him that battle for now.

The inflated acclaim Anderson receives from the English media who ignore his flaws probably leads to it being somewhat trendy to **** on him.
 

capt_Luffy

International Captain
Steyn
Cummins
Anderson
Rabada
Bumrah
Philander
Broad
Hazlewood
Johnson
Wagner
Shami
Boult
Morkel
Harris
Starc
Southee
Jamieson
Asif
Bond
Zaheer
Siddle
Roach
Clark
Hoggard
Sharma
Harmison
Holder
Abbott
Pattinson
Nortje
 
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Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Steyn
Cummins
Anderson
Rabada
Bumrah
Philander
Broad
Hazlewood
Johnson
Wagner
Shami
Boult
Morkel
Harris
Starc
Southee
Jamieson
Asif
Bond
Zaheer
Siddle
Roach
Clark
Hoggard
Sharma
Harmison
Holder
Abbott
Pattinson
Nortje
Good list but Mohammad Abbas was better than a few of those bowlers
 

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